Kailh Box Switch Stem Measurements and Possible Problems

I have a BOX switch tester, and three of the caps are now broken. They are Cherry profile, if I remember correctly.

O I really hope they address it! If they don’t I would be dissapointed :frowning:

Figured I’d add from my comment on the Reddit post:

I've got 700 Jades in boards currently, so I took a look to see if there's anything going on with those:

GMK RA R1 - no cracks seen at all, late 2017 Jades
GMK Plum - a couple cracks found :(, early 2018 Jades
SA Nuke Data - couple cracks with stress marks inside the stems, early 2018 Jades
SA Lime - several cracked stems but Lime is known for that to happen, early 2018 Jades
SA Carbon R3 - no sign of cracks or stress marks, early and mid 2018 Jades
DSA Hana - no sign of cracks or stress marks, early 2018 Jades
G20 Semiotic - no sign of cracks or stress marks, early 2018 Jades

So from my analysis, more recent production box stems may have more of an affect than older runs, GMK seems more susceptible to this issue perhaps due to tighter tolerances, and sets that are already “predisposed” for stem issues (Lime and Nuke Data both had numerous QC issues) may find these issues exacerbated by Kailh’s specs being based around a thicker stem than other switches.

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Well this is not good news at all! Just went over my GMK Sky Dolch set that I had on BOX Royals & thankfully no cracks. Although it did make them fit other switches a bit looser after being put on the Royals. Right now I have 2 boards with BOX switches & both are rocking SA caps that haven’t been damaged by them. My Nightfox has BOX Royals from their first run & I got SA Pulse from it’s first run on them, then my ACR60 has BOX Navys from late 2017 & MAXKEYS SA B&G from the same time period (newer run, has the fixed kerning). I have also used ePBT sets with both boards & no issues with the caps.

Guess I should consider myself lucky after reading this post. A lot of broken caps from a pretty small sample size, not looking to good for Kaihl. Shame too, BOX switches are really nice other than this one issue. Hope they fix it quickly & it would be nice to see them do something for those who have cap sets ruined by the BOX series. Although they do have it right on their spec sheets that the stems are a bit bigger than normal MX ones. :disappointed:

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From the volume of comments, there are certainly tolerance issues. However, most people don’t have this problem so I think it’s rare.

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@Plean Sorry I’m late! I took data from my batch of Royal Hako Clears:

I took the length of the x-axis and y-axis of each stem as well as the thickness of the x-axis and the y-axis.

To take these measurements I used the Neiko 01407A.

I measured the thicknesses under the assumption that the thickness on one side of the x-axis cross is the same as the other. I applied the same assumption when measuring the thickness for the y-axis.

below are my results.

Hopefully this helps.

ALL MEASUREMENTS TAKEN IN MILLIMETERS

Hako Royal True x-axis length y-axis length x-axis thickness y-axis thickness
1 3.97 3.97 1.36 1.09
2 3.97 3.99 1.34 1.08
3 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.09
4 3.97 3.98 1.34 1.1
5 4.00 3.99 1.34 1.1
6 3.97 3.99 1.36 1.1
7 3.97 3.95 1.37 1.08
8 3.95 3.97 1.35 1.09
9 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.09
10 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.08
11 3.98 3.96 1.34 1.09
12 3.97 3.96 1.38 1.1
13 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.1
14 3.98 3.98 1.35 1.1
15 3.98 3.98 1.36 1.09
16 3.97 3.97 1.36 1.13
17 3.95 3.95 1.36 1.14
18 3.97 3.95 1.35 1.1
19 3.97 3.99 1.35 1.1
20 3.99 3.97 1.34 1.1
21 3.96 3.96 1.34 1.09
22 3.99 3.97 1.35 1.09
23 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.1
24 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.12
25 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.08
26 3.98 3.97 1.34 1.11
27 3.97 3.97 1.35 1.1
28 3.99 3.96 1.35 1.1
29 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.09
30 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.09
31 4.00 4.00 1.34 1.1
32 3.98 3.97 1.35 1.09
33 4.00 3.96 1.35 1.07
34 4.00 4.00 1.34 1.1
35 3.98 3.97 1.34 1.08
36 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.08
37 4.00 4.01 1.34 1.07
38 3.98 3.99 1.35 1.08
39 4.00 3.98 1.34 1.09
40 3.98 3.96 1.34 1.08
41 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.1
42 3.98 3.97 1.34 1.08
43 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.08
44 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.08
45 4.00 3.97 1.35 1.08
46 3.98 3.96 1.35 1.12
47 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.08
48 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.1
49 4.00 3.98 1.34 1.08
50 3.96 3.97 1.35 1.09
51 3.97 3.97 1.35 1.08
52 3.97 3.97 1.35 1.12
53 3.96 3.97 1.35 1.08
54 3.97 3.97 1.35 1.08
55 3.96 3.96 1.36 1.08
56 3.96 3.96 1.34 1.09
57 3.96 3.96 1.34 1.08
58 3.98 3.97 1.35 1.08
59 3.96 3.96 1.34 1.08
60 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.08
61 3.97 3.98 1.35 1.09
62 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.08
63 3.98 3.98 1.34 1.08
64 3.98 3.99 1.35 1.08
65 3.97 3.97 1.33 1.08
66 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.08
67 3.99 3.97 1.35 1.1
68 3.97 3.99 1.35 1.08
69 3.97 3.98 1.35 1.12
70 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.09
71 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.08
72 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.09
73 3.97 3.98 1.34 1.1
74 3.97 3.97 1.36 1.13
75 3.99 3.97 1.35 1.08
76 3.97 3.98 1.35 1.1
77 3.99 3.98 1.34 1.09
78 3.98 3.98 1.34 1.09
79 3.99 3.97 1.35 1.07
80 3.96 3.96 1.35 1.08
81 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.07
82 3.97 3.96 1.35 1.09
83 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.07
84 3.97 3.97 1.34 1.09
85 3.97 3.96 1.34 1.1
86 3.97 3.97 1.35 1.12
87 3.98 3.97 1.34 1.07
88 3.97 3.98 1.35 1.11
89 3.96 3.96 1.34 1.08
90 3.96 3.97 1.33 1.07
Mean x-axis length Mean y-axis length Mean x-axis thickness Mean y-axis thickness
3.974888889 3.97 1.346666667 1.090666667
Median x-axis length Median y-axis length Median x-axis thickness Median y-axis thickness
3.97 3.97 1.35 1.09

Note on Data: Assume 2 sig figs, so 1.1 is actually 1.10. I forgot to adjust that earlier because I was lazy. My b.

Edit: Thanks @frostbyte for catching a typo on the table. I’ve fixed it.

I can provide more data on more switches (box and non-box) this weekend when I have time.

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I have a batch of Hako trues waiting to be used and I would really like to know if there are problematic as well.

Guess I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread as I have BOX Navies waiting to be installed in a board.

Wouldn’t your measurements suggest that every switch in the batch is out of spec? Kailh rep is posting on GH showing their measurements being right on spec.

I haven’t seen the Kailh rep’s comments yet, can you post the link to the thread here?

If my measurements suggest that than it may be so for these 90 switches. I’m planning on doing more stem measurements, box and non-box, this weekend as well.

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Maybe you can post a link to your measurements in this thread:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96323.msg2643355#msg2643355

I guess the ones that measure 1.34 are still in spec. But there several in your batch of 90 that are over that 1.34 measurement. And your mean is higher on the x-axis

Seems x-axis is the main issue

What I know is that in 5 years of putting keycaps on, i have never actually heard a stem snap until this week. Something is wrong, whether it’s a batch issue or overall is yet to be seen. I don’t feel good taking chances on my collection.

As I’ve stated before, I’d be more than happy to re-buy the thousand or so box switches I plan to sell on r/mm if Kailh can make the stems thinner. I really like the Hako Royal, red, black, brown, and white. I have hako trues in my canoe. I’m not trying to be a hater

He could be on to something by measuring height, too. B/c kailh hasn’t stated anything about stem height in their specs. It might makes sense that they could also be (excuse me for a second, ladies) going in too deep.

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dang, took my epbt 9009 off my box jades and it looks like this set will be exclusively box switches now, as tapping my keycaps after placing them on some cherry switches had them blasting off like team rocket.

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Can you see any visible cracks on your EPBT 9009 caps or has the box jades just loosened the stem considerably?

Hey all!

Currently on the plane to Seattle. But I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that I’m actively engaging with Kailh. I was hoping to have more solid information now, but I don’t have all the information I need yet.

Expect a post from me sometime this coming week.

Thanks for your patience while I work with Kailh to get all the information.

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Loosened the stems. No cracks

Thank you, Mike.

Thank you for taking the time to do all these measurements! Like you said, we need more data!

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Please design Kailh BOX Silents…and have fun in the Northwest!

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