Silent tactile switches

Learning and discussion Key switches
107

This is incredible! Thanks for doing this!

I think my problem in the past was using the tight-tops instead of RGB for frankenswitching. Those tight-tops sometimes fight with Durock and other stems.

Wonder if you could get Everglide Jade Green stems to work in Bobagum! The housing was always something that needed lots of work on those switches. I tried with tight-tops and Boba housings, but it gave me trouble.

[BTW The ~58 G springs on Jade Green and 58.5 on Meteor Orange are great. Do you know which custom springs are equivalent. I guess Spirit 58 G 15mm?]

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108

I’m curious as to whether the Silent Lime / Lemon V2 are improved in any way from V1. Does anyone know?

EDIT: BTW, checking the Silent Jade Yellow, AliExpress reviews seem to indicate that it is essentially the same as Silent Cream Yellow.

Except that it is transparent.

So these Jade Yellow are basically an unlabeled Silent Cream Yellow V3. People seem to be satisfied with the stock lube and sound, but most plan to add their own lube anyways. Springs may already be lubed sufficiently.

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109

Hi everyone, I’m new here.

I have Silent Lime/Lemon V1 and was thinking of modding it to improve the overall feel.

  1. What kind of spring weight would you suggest to use? I prefer something snappy and heavy.

  2. Will Boba U4s stems fit in the Silent Lime/Lemon housing? How will it feel without changing the stock springs?

  3. Will they benefit from lubing?

Thanks

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110

Hello and welcome!

  1. Long springs - 20mm+ (more preload, more snappy)

  2. U4s will fit in Lime/Lemons, but not the other way around IIRC. Not totally sure about the feel - the bump will be longer and more round but may overpower the spring a bit / return sluggishly - that part is a guess, though - I can test later today

  3. Yes. There’s some light factory oil, but I think most switches benefit from the human touch. These (Lime/Lemons) are light enough tactiles that I’d recommend avoiding the legs but otherwise I say go for it. As for U4s, I actually like lubing those legs, but most probably still wouldn’t.

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111

You could put U4 stems in Lime housings, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Why?

Because there’s already an OUTEMU U4 out there, the Silent Cream Yellow / Jade. It’s a slightly toned-down U4 that’s available at like $20 for 90. So it would be just as cheap to buy Silent Cream Yellow V2 as it would be to put U4 stems in Lime housings.

Sure, the U4 stems would be a little more tactile than Silent Cream Yellow. But you’re missing the best part, IMHO. The housing. The U4 Boba housings are excellent. I’d rather run U4 stems in Boba housings, for tactility, or Bobagum to moderate the tactility.

Lime housings aren’t as nice as Boba. The Limes need hand-lubing for best results. The V1 were more wobbly than Bobas. Not sure about V2. But Boba/gum housing is superior.

So if keeping the Lime housing, I’d also keep the Lime stem as well. The Lime stem is the interesting part, you don’t find those in Bobas. So I’d keep the switch together, lube it, and add aftermarket springs if you want more punch.

[You can make something like a deluxe Silent Lime if you put OUTEMU Silent Sky/Forest stems into Boba/gum housings. Very tactile in Boba if you use 65-68 G springs and don’t lube too much.]

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112

I’d emphasize here, you have to lube the Silent Lemon/Limes for best results. I helped with an NCR-80 for a relative using Silent Limes.

The lubed Silent Limes were quieter and deeper-sounding than unlubed. Very superior if going for a silent build. You just need to use a normal amount of 3204, no special technique. Lube springs, of course. It’s very worth it to lube Silent Limes.

RYxYkbi1
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113

Let me know your findings and experience once you fitted the U4 stems into the Lime housings.

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114

Well, I do agree with all the points given but my reason to purchase only the U4 stems is to give the Limes the no pre-travel tactile feel, and also to limit the amount of plastic waste lmao. I’m downsizing my keeb stuffs and would prefer to not keep more switches.

I think, for me, it’s either: (1) swap the springs of the Limes and hand lube, or (2) upgrade the stems to U4s, swap springs, and hand lube.

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115

I gave this a try and they do indeed fit.

Compared with a stock Gazzew U4 (in this case an older Boba), a Lime with U4 stem:

  • does have more wobble

  • but also less leaf noise

  • thanks to that, more quiet overall

  • but light contact with the keys that aren’t presses will make more noise thanks to the dampeners brushing the top housing; there’s not enough play for this to happen in a Gazzew housing

  • with the Lime spring it is lighter, but more top-weighted; it feels a little more crisp, the whole experience a little more “about” the tactile bump

Thoughts, other mixes

I also tried the Lime spring in an otherwise stock U4 switch, and while I liked it more than the stock one, I still preferred the otherwise stock Lime with a U4 stem. Less wobble here, but more leaf noise.

Also I was wrong before - the Lime stem totally fits in Gazzew housings, and gains lots of stability. With the Lime spring I didn’t like the leaf interaction, it sort of hung when resetting the tactile bump - but with the U4 spring it didn’t have that issue. The bump itself was a lot more washed-out, but also more consistent feeling, both compared to just the Lime spring and the Lime switch in general.

So, stock U4 with Lime stem, not bad! Dunno about buying all the parts just for that, but I do like it, and it’s my second favorite of all these possible mixes, after the U4 stem in the Lime housing with Lime spring.

It looks like the only obvious difference with V2 Limes is that they have 5 pins now, so that’s cool.

My take:

I don’t know that I’d buy Limes & U4 stems just to mix them, but if I already had Limes on-hand and wanted to change them up, I could totally see a bag of U4 stems being a worthy upgrade for them.

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116

Interesting bunch of trade-offs you’ve indicated here.

Personally, I think if reducing plastic waste is the key priority, than simply lubing & spring-swapping the Limes is the best alternative. But I think cikthang has his heart set on using U4 stems, which you’ve demonstrated is viable.

If I have some Boba linear housings in a month or so, I’ll be able to test Lime stems in them. Those might fix the Lime’s deficiencies [Wobble, mild scratch, some leaf noise]. Since some Boba Linear housings are quieter than Boba tactile.

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117

Do you think the limes would benefit from filming?

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118

Thanks for the detailed review on this frankenswitch!

I think I might go this route, but still unsure about the stock spring weight, as well as single vs multi stages. Do you have any input on this?

For background, I’ve only used tactiles throughout the hobby:

  • KAM Bouquet by JWK (60g 3-stage gold-plated long springs) - my favourite, but too fatiguing

  • Gateron Root Beer Float (58g 2-stage gold-plated 22mm springs) - now daily driving this almost a month

  • Ajazz Kiwi (60g 2-stage 21mm stainless steel springs) - used for a year, imo best for typing long hours

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119

That’s an interesting question. I’m dubious about filming silent switches, since there is a possibility that the film adds to the noise. [Not tested this.]

But Lime is a wobbly switch, at least compared with Boba housings.

I have experience with a similar switch: Silent Forest stems in Cherry housings. Those housings, as you know, are not the tightest. So some TX films went into those. Overall, it worked out. They are only marginally less-wobbly than stock Cherry switches, but at least they are quiet, and sound consistent.

So properly-done films on Silent Lime might improve the consistency of their sound. If they become less wobbly, so much the better. It’s definitely worth testing. [Lubing them is way more important, though.]

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120

Deadeye can likely help you more with this question.

It seems you have lots of experience with strong springs. I tend to go the other direction in springs.

For example, the stock Lime could probably do okay with 60 G 14mm TX springs, almost certainly 60 G 15mm Spirit.

But if you wanted punch, some 18mm 55-58 G springs would really give them punch. Similarly, 63.5 G L ThiccThoc springs would give more power than the stock springs. But these powerful springs tend to be louder: for silent springs, I would go with 15mm Spirit springs. 63.5-68 G in the case of your Limes.

The U4 stems [if going that route] can work in Boba housings at relatively low weights of 55 - 58 G 15mm. So you could probably get away with such springs in the Lime housings. But 62 - 68 G 15mm springs will be poppier, and not obnoxiously loud.

My instinct is that you might want to go with 62 - 65 G 15mm springs either way on the Limes, as they are sufficiently poppy and easier to quiet. Huge multi-stage springs may not be ideal in a silent switch, unless they are really high-quality [hence expensive].

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121

All good advice / notes from HungerMechanic. I think there probably is a trade-off between pre-load punchiness and silence. That said, I think a long spring on the lighter side can still be quiet enough with oil.

With the U4-in-Lime combo, I feel like the Lime’s stock spring is plenty in-context. The bottom-out weight isn’t as heavy, but the tactile peak is enough to prevent me from making accidental presses with my clumsy fingers. There’s a tiny bit of ring to the stock Lime spring with the U4 stem, but I have to have the switch right next to my ear to hear it - it’s more quiet than a stock U4 switch.

As for the stages thing, if it makes a difference on its own, I’m not really sure what it is. I think the amount of pre-load matters a lot, and I’ve seen it said that more stages allow for more of that, other things being equal. IDK.

Longer definitely means more pre-load (other things being equal) - and that means a snappier feel compared to shorter / less pre-loaded springs of the same bottom-out weight. The Lime has a pretty long spring, so even though it bottoms-out more easily than a Boba U4, I think it also feels more lively with the same stem.

Re: filming and wobble - I’ve actually had wholly positive experiences with filming silent switches; better stability, better silence. All the films I’ve used are clear of the stem’s path if installed correctly, and will prevent top-out tick that can mar an otherwise hushed experience.

Anecdote: I built a keyboard for a friend, and had the whole thing together only to find it dissatisfying, realizing that some switches top housings were jostling on top-out - so I broke the whole thing down and filmed all the switches. Oof… but after I was done, not a chitter-chatter to be heard, and the switches felt more solid. Three years later my bud still tells me how much he likes using it - also incidentally a U4-based franken situation.

Limes (and Peaches) do have wobbly housings - though I got some V2 samples today and the ones I have seem a little better about that, plus they have 5 pins. If I were doing a build based around Lime or Peach housings of either version, I’d probably plan on filming them.

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@Deadeye To quote myself from a different thread about springs:

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I’m taking all of this into consideration when I’m building my next board. Thank you so much everyone!

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Hi everyone, first time posting so im sorry if I shouldnt write here. I have been looking for a silent light tactile switch. I have only really found the outemus lime v2 that fit this criteria, but people have said they feel a bit mushy. The outemu jades have gotten way better feedback but they are to heavy.

Do you guys recommend me going for the limes, or trying the jades and swapping the springs for lighter ones (45g)? Are there any other alternatives im not considering?

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125

IIRC people have had decent luck putting the lime stems into Jades and other Outemu housings like Gazzews or Modes. Those will all have the same dampeners, though I think the tighter housings help them feel less mushy.

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Ah I see. I was thinking that it was the low weight that made the limes feel mushy. So that the mushiness is always there, just that the higher force of the jades was masking it. But maybe it has more to do with the stem and housing.

Thanks for the suggestion! I am going to buy both anyway so will definitely try to swap stems, and maybe the springs aswell since i want a light tactile