I go back & forth, some recent base kits have had really nice kitting with Alice support & even basic 40s support. I can get down with just the base in those cases, but I do agree that it is frustrating when a set you’ve wanted goes on sale but it’s just the base on sale & child kits are full price.
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Is there any consensus about what constitutes heavy switches vs. light switches in terms of
- actuation force
- bottom out force
- actuation travel distance
- bottom out travel distance
Or some formula that uses a combination of the above variables? Or some other formula?
Second question: do keebtalkers feel that it would be useful to have a Heavy Switches thread and a Light Switches thread?
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@billy Based on observation, the only real factor in assigning the heavy or light label is the total/bottom out spring force. In the U.S., light seems definitively below 60gf, and heavy is above 65gf. Approx. 63gf is entirely middle-of-the-road, and the range from 60gf-65gf, inclusive, could be considered middle in general, though some think of 60gf as light and 65gf as starting to get heavy, also. It’s my impression that lighter weights are more popular in China, at least, so the scale may differ there. Not sure where other Asian countries’ keeb enjoyers fall on this. I assume Europe and Australia are similar to the U.S.
Then you do see impressions noting subjective variation from the nominal spring weight, so someone may call a switch surprisingly light feeling despite a heavy spring, potentially due to smoothness, short travel, spring variance, or what have you.
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As a general rule I think of heavy switches as anything >60gf; light <45; and I just avoid that middle ground because I’m not sure what’s going on there.
All those force curves make perfect, logical sense, but in practical terms I’ve never really been able to connect them with the physical sensation. Which is great news for the vendors because I have to buy a switch to see if I like the way it feels.
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I also cannot connect a force curve to the switch sensation. I don’t think many brains are wired to do that.
Practically, shouldn’t spring length be factored into the heavy-light categorization? This should impact the amount of work required to bottom out.
Spring length is going to determine the preload into the force curve.
If you have two springs, both are 55g, but one is 15mm and the other is 20mm, the 20mm is going to feel snappier because more of the spring is under tension in the same space.
There is another post here on KT that does a much better job at explaining and goes more in-depth.
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Thank you for the link.
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Another topic: Stabilizers. People consistently praise Durock V2s. I bought them. I lubed them, installed them and tuned them. I have taken them out and put them back. I have checked to make sure they are flush with the PCB. I’ve rechecked the screws. I’ve disassembled them, removed the lube and re-lubed and tuned, and reinstalled them. And I have never been able to get the tic completely out of a space bar. There is always that one place and invariably it is where my thumb naturally hits it.
What about TX AP stabilizers and Stabies? Am I likely to fare any better?
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Perhaps. I used Durock V2s in a few dozen boards. I don’t think any of them have ticking. But I spent a lot of time lubing them carefully. There are a few people on here who like Stabies. I have two sets of Stabies and they are both in their box. It’s very easy for the stems to get caught on the inside of the housing. I would never use them in a soldered board.
I do prefer TX AP stabilizers. They’re easy for me to use. I can lube a set and have them installed in less than 10 minutes. Now… one thing that I have run into is the need for screw in options. There are several times when the PCB cutout hole for the stabilizer isn’t a full circle (sometimes on the space bar or, more often, around the enter key). Clip-ins like regular TX will often pull out because their shims inserted through the back fall out. I have a handful of boards with TX AP clip-in stabilizers that have a Durock or Zeal stabilizer in those positions. This was before TX offered a screw-in option. So, for the best of the best, I would go with TX AP screw-in stabilizers (unless you absolutely need clip in for clearance issues with gasket rings for gummy mount boards)
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As someone who is both obsessive about clean-sounding stabilizers and decidedly not good at tuning them, I’ve had much better luck with TX AP than just about anything so far. I might actually prefer good old Cherry overall, but that comes with a somewhat grainy feel that most popular contemporary stabs including TX don’t have.
I’ve yet to manage a set of Durocks that doesn’t tick (skill issue) - but even if I had, I’d still be uncomfortable with how much play they have: some combinations of cap and case with these will have parts slamming into each-other.
Staebies are kind of the opposite; they have too little play for their own good. If the stars align they are amazing - maybe the most stable stabilizers I’ve ever tried - but if the PCB or plate are even a tiny bit off or if the space bar is even a tiny bit warped, forget about it. At least Durocks will let you use a fairly banana’d space bar.
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I will add my two cents in here as far as TX stabilizers go. To me, they are fine. I have found Cherry stabilizers to work just as well for clip-ins, and actually prefer the way they sound over TX stabs, but lots of folks hate that you have to clip the sliders. I personally find it to be therapeutic, but I am also a weirdo.
Cherry wires, on the other hand, are awful, so I tend to buy batches of the 2u Cherry stabs and then pick up wires from CannonKeys and assemble them that way. CannonKeys’ wires are also great if you do have a problem spacebar wire or something as they come relatively balanced already. If you have issues balancing wires, just swap it out with one of their wires and you should see an instant difference. If you still have ticking, maybe try a “stickier” lube, or adding lube via a syringe.
If they still tick, send them to me and I’ll fix them for ya! 
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Wait, what? A spring distributes the tension through its entire length.
How often do you re-lube stabs? On two of my most frequently used boards, I feel like I already need to redo the stabs, within just a year of use. Last time, I put 205g0 on the stems/housings and dielectric grease on the wires. I’m considering trying something else on the wires, like maybe superlube, since I’ve seen some say that it holds up better long term. Would that help?
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Maybe a few boards I’ve relubed stabilizers like once a year. Just squirt some DE grease in the wire ends with a small syringe. Some I’ve never relubed. So far NyoGel has held up the best for me. But I’m also using better stabilizers lately, so 
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Thanks for the tips. I’m planning to re-lube a set of generic plate-mount stabs in one board, but in another board, I’m swapping out a generic set of screw-in stabs for TX AP screw-ins.
Replacing those screw-in stabs is going to be an annoying amount of work, so I’m hoping to figure out the ideal lubricant and method to hopefully reduce the frequency of future servicing. I’ll try the NyoGel.
Edit: @pixelpusher, is it specifically Nyogel 760G that you use, or something else?
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If you plan on using TX AP stabs I would stick to just using 205g0 or a similar viscosity lube on all parts of them. They have fairly tight tolerances & are very easy to overlube.
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Yes,760g
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FD145CP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I do a light coating from where the curved wire part clips in to the stabilizer housing until the end of the wire on each end. The main reason I’m careful not to overlube is because if you get sticky lube on the bottom of the stabilzer where it hits the PCB. I’ve had that happen using less sticky lubes that can separate/run over time. It’s also why I don’t like cherry stabilizers. Too much space for the lube to get out of that hole and underneath the stabilizer insert.
NyoGel is nice because it’s easy to apply a thin, even coating. I use 205g0 on the sides and leg tips of the stabilizer inserts. Very light coating once again.
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I’m checking the NyoGel 760G material safety data sheet and there are some concerning parts about reproductive harm
I would recommend that anyone considering the use of NyoGel 760G to fully read the MSDS linked above, but I wanted to emphasize some key points that should not be overlooked:
Health hazards Reproductive toxicity Category 2
Hazard statement Suspected of damaging fertility or the unborn child.
Precautions for safe handling
Obtain special instructions before use. Do not handle until all safety precautions have been read
and understood. Avoid prolonged exposure.Pregnant or breastfeeding women must not handle this product.
Should be handled in closed systems, if possible. Provide adequate ventilation. Wear
appropriate personal protective equipment. Observe good industrial hygiene practices.Hand protection Wear appropriate chemical resistant gloves.
Use of an impervious apron is recommended.
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Yes I’m always very careful with any of these lubes. I usually wear disposable gloves and work on a disposable surface (brown paper or tin foil)
The nyogel is the only lube I’ve used that seems easy to contain. It’s harder to make a mess of it.
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I recently overlubed some Everglide Aqua Kings, despite all of the warnings not to overlube. I was thinking of buying some electrical q-tips and wiping out as much excess as possible, and then maybe replacing the springs. I used Krytox 205g0. Does this have any chance of working?
The posts I’ve seen on cleaning lube from switches: dismantling even the leaf springs, washing, rinsing, relubing seems like a daunting task.
Second question, lately I’ve seen many different lubes recommended for various tasks, including GS1, GS2, GS3, Tribosys 3203, 3204, Krytox 205g0, Krytox 205g00, Krytox oil (106g I think), NyoGel 760G, loctite dialectic grease (for stabilizer wires). @d3L7r0n had some specific recommendations, but I can’t find that post right now. Do we really need to have all of these lubes or can we get by with one, two or three of them?
Also, @yeeb, I really appreciate the warning.
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