CUSTOM stuff means nothing. It doesn’t mean that the numbers must be low.
A Porsche is made in big numbers and still it’s a custom and luxury product, because there are great minds behind it and a big number of clients that buy a high quality product.
In this hobby the great minds stopped working and thinking after the gh60, and the products are still low quality and designed by newcomers that sell you a product made in china by underage workers as it was a boutique jewel. This is pathetic.
I think what you’re missing there is that the price on the drop/custom boards is much higher than an off the shelf board like gmmk, etc, with a lower volume custom board the cost will be higher, that’s because everyone up and down the chain has to take more of a profit margin for it to be worth their time.
You say the 60% keyboards are more popular? How many nice cases and PCBs are there, availabe to buy immediately? A small number, because this movement is very small.
I beg to disagree.
Very harshly so.
I agree that there’s a lot of similarity in designs. But as you proceed to look into GBs, you come across people like HMKB and the recent LED board that was being shown on the threads here.
That is innovation. Ortholinear is an innovation. Frakenswitches are innovation. Lubes and bandaid mods are innovations. There’s a more recent forray into foams.
You can’t just say there’s no space to grow in this market.
But like ANY market, it takes time and growth. The more streamlined a category is, the more time it takes for growth.
Such a single minded, aggressive, blame game approach is what stops innovation. Time just ferments ideas until they show up in a new form that wows everyone.
That’s the thing.
You are just contradicting yourself now.
Those off-the-shelf models are made to appeal to people even if they aren’t very enthusiastic about this AS A A HOBBY.
Those models are generic looking to appeal to a wider audience.
Those models are priced competitively to gain more sales and profit.
You can’t compare that to something like a GB that has limited pieces that are available ever.
Still I think that these hobbysts are paying big dollars for a low tech and generally ugly product that comes out of the seventies. You’re still buying keycaps and cases that have been engineered fifty years ago. That’s the level of the technology, these are the investments made.
People buy expensive af wine that has been sitting around from the 1800s.
That’s the Vintage craze.
Your point?
There are no nice off the shelf products because nobody cares about keyboards, that’s my point. There isn’t a big and continuous supply of beautiful and expensive products because nobody cares, nobody buys them. The number of the enthusiasts is very small, so no one invests in this market. Look at how fast has the elecronic evolved, and look at keyboards. They’re still being engineered by cavemans for cavemans.
Are you saying that half of keyboard group buys are for TKLs? That doesn’t seem to match my experience at all. Or are you talking about keycap group buys? Keycaps sets include TKL layouts because they are a standard that will work for multiple layouts, but most people are not taking those sets and just plopping them on a TKL.
You clearly have not done your research, and it shows. Again, I do not appreciate the language and aggressive attitude you are using, there are a lot of people out there doing a lot of good work that they are pouring love into and making amazing product. You are not required to like it. Let’s break down your points one by one.
Novelkeys, Norbauer, and Rama are actively working on injection molded parts. Massdrop offered them in the past.
??? What do you even mean by this? Many people have built businesses around keyboards. Look at novelkeys, dixiemech, the key company, switchmod, etc etc
Again, please look at the numbers, dixiemech and novelkeys especially, that some of the newer vendors are putting up.
WTF does this even mean?
Why does making a different PCB for a different shaped board make it bad? If you want a very refined PCB look at 60%, they are standardized and there are lots of mature designs. Sure there are things that can be improved but things have gotten a lot better in the last few years.
??? Most of them run the same QMK or VIA? Both are actively developed and have become very mature in the last year or so.
WTF is this even supposed to mean? Hiney, Wilba, etc etc are all offering great PCBs. Why do you need to put people down and call them cavemen?
There are no off-the-shelf nice products?
Wait what?
So you mean to say everyone who uses a computer and has a keyboard sitting in front of them cheap out on them?
Let me give you a simple count.
Go to any pc related forum and ask which keyboard they use. They will largely answer with a mechanical variant.
And there are plenty of beautiful options out there. Have you seen the Logitech Craft?
Opto-mechanical switches aren’t cheap either.
Plus, there is no such thing as mass produced high end CUSTOM product.
That’s the part where the custom comes in.
BTW…
You could compare electronics to a lot of things and say that a broad category like ‘electronics’ have surpassed them.
Tell me how much innovation have you seen in mice then?
This is not a good hobby for you. Move on.
the logitech craft??? that’s ugly, it uses non standard keycaps and a sub par layout
People: don’t feed the troll.
I’m going to have to agree with @donpark on this one, and would like to add that if all you want to do is argue please go elsewhere. I’m done.
This is not an appropriate way to talk to people, on the internet or otherwise.
I do not appreciate the language and aggressive attitude you are using,
Agressive attitude? I’m just being straighforward. I don’t even know who you are, yet you feel threatened, this is ridiculous.
Novelkeys, Norbauer, and Rama are actively working on injection molded parts. Massdrop offered them in the past.
There are a few, because the movement is small, that’s my point.
Only short term goals.
??? What do you even mean by this? Many people have built businesses around keyboards. Look at novelkeys, dixiemech, the key company, switchmod, etc etc
They take the money coming from an investment and run, because it’s not worth the effort and the time. Because the movement is small, that’s my point.
Again, please look at the numbers, dixiemech and novelkeys especially, that some of the newer vendors are putting up.
The numbers are small, because the movement is small, that’s my point.
Why does making a different PCB for a different shaped board make it bad? If you want a very refined PCB look at 60%, they are standardized and there are lots of mature designs. Sure there are things that can be improved but things have gotten a lot better in the last few years.
Progress is very slow because the movement is small, that’s my point.
Most of them run the same QMK or VIA? Both are actively developed and have become very mature in the last year or so.
In the last year or so? Progress is slow because the movement is small, that’s my point.
WTF is this even supposed to mean? Hiney, Wilba, etc etc are all offering great PCBs.
Are these all the names that come into your mind? There are a few, because the because the movement is small, that’s my point. And still the do one or two group buys a year, because the because the movement is small, that’s my point.
Everyone needs to calm down. Locking the topic until cooler heads prevail.