So I’ve posted on Geekhack a while back, but I’ve measured SPRiT’s 63.5g progressive and complex springs, and Thic Thock’s MP 68g “progressive” springs, and largely found them to be pretty linear.
When you install a spring in a switch you compress it down to ~8mm when you put the switch top back on, and most of the tight coils that provide the nonlinearity have already compressed against each other and bottomed out, and the remaining coils don’t get you much if any nonlinearity.
for the spring science
It seems to me that we’d need to be making considerably shorter springs to actually properly take advantage of their progressive properties
I’m not calling into question the dataset or the methodology, want to be clear about that, but how do you explain the difference in feel?
I know it’s super subjective, but I’m able to tell the difference between a gat yellow/slow spring and a complex etc.
Is that due to the different weight and inconsistencies or is there just a barely noticeable difference between these?
Honestly I think from my messing around with slow & progressive springs they literally just change the weight (prog = lower, slow = higher) from the advertised. I don’t have a force curve machine to prove this, but have seen force curves taken with spirit progressive springs & it was pretty linear looking. So while they may not change the linearity of the force curve theu do get you odd weightings you couldn’t otherwise get. At least that is my educated guess from the current evidence.
That’s interesting. Do you know if when performing force graphs they measure with keycaps? And if not, how does variable keycap weight (DSA vs MT3/SA) skew those numbers in your opinion?
Not OP, but from a purely subjective/daily usage: sculpted(MT3, DSA) and heavier caps (CRP, some PBT) tend to feel the same when “going up” a notch on spring weight, ie: I use 65g sprit slow ex2 or gat yellows for GMK, but I only get the same/similar feeling when using 68g slow on MT3. So the weight might factor into the equation.
They should not be using keycaps when they make force curve graphs, but I can’t speak for many of the graphs in the wild. I’m 99% sure Matt3o’s & Huey’s force curves are done properly without a keycap though. I think heavier keycaps will skew the springs to feel slightly lighter & vice versa TBH. Not by much, but probably enough to show up on a force curve graph since I can personally notice a difference when using say GMK vs SA.
I do not use a keycap on my measurements (with the sole exception of the TG3 rubber dome curves, as the keycap is necessary to interface with the dome). Not sure about other peoples’ measurements.
Hi, I wonder which kind of springs do I get if I prefer light typing without feeling stronger resistance at the end of keystroke before bottoming out.
In the context of linear switches, do I go for Sprit Slow Extreme springs since the initial force and bottom out force difference is much less compared to conventional linear springs? I feel like it’s difficult for me to appreciate linear switches because the bottoming force could be much more than initial force, and since there is no feedback on the actuation point, I feel like bottoming out is the safest choice when typing to prevent missing keystrokes (also for the bottoming out sound, I guess).
Long springs/slow curve springs are the answer to that. I couldn’t get into linear for the very same reason until I tried light weight long springs.
I haven’t tried sprit slow springs, but the symmetric dual-stage springs from kineticlabs and flashquark are quite nice. They are all longer than TX long spring. The ones from Cannonkey and kineticlabs are around 23mm, flashquark’s springs are slightly shorter around 21mm.
Would this work on tactiles too? I’m thinking about a 45g 16mm or is that too light? I want a tactitle bump but very fast and responsive.
It will depend on the particular switch. If the bump is big and sharp, 45g may be too light to return the key, although longer springs will certainly help.
I have not tried to use those two-stage symmetric springs(22mm) in tactile, but I suspect they may reduce the bump on the force curve.
@HungerMechanic has more experience with different springs in light to strong tactile. You may want to check out his past comments.
I think we’re talking about it in the other thread.
Generally, my experience is that light tactiles want the spring to be weak at the top.
The reason for this is that higher spring weight reduces tactility. With an already low-tactility, you want the spring to be weaker so that it takes more effort to clear the bump. Otherwise, you can ‘lose’ the bump somewhat in a top-heavy spring.
Further to this, it’s better to have the spring heavier at the bottom. This is for function purposes. The higher the bottom-out weight, the more cushion, and also a stronger return. Both of these things are excellent in light tactiles, IMHO. This means using a slightly progressive spring, which you can get from the shorter springs like 14mm TX.
You can also use actual Progressive springs like Spirit makes, but I find that they can be very light and ‘empty’ feeling at the low weights like 63.5 G P when used in the “Brown-like” switches. For example, they turn TTC Watermelon Milkshake into a very light Brown, ‘floaty’ in feel. As a result, I use nominally-Progressive springs in medium and heavy tactiles instead. They kind of tone them down, somehow.
Alphadecay has pointed out the existence of a 14.5mm spring, which may be highly-desirable for use in light-tactiles. I haven’t experienced it yet, but if it provides greater cushion and return-force at the same weight [say, 58 G for the Meteor Orange], then they could be very useful indeed:
Yes actually @HungerMechanic gave me the idea about spring swapping so I decided to look for other helpful threads. Thank you!
I really didnt realize that springs could play a big role with the feel like lubing the switches. Really glad I got sucked into this rabbit hole! haha!
Finally deciding it is my time to go down the rabbit hole of different springs, yall got any recommendations brand and weight/type wise. Definitely want to try a lot of the diff types of but there are lots of options and idk where to start lol.
Definitely some TX Long springs with whatever weight. I found ThicThock ‘long’ springs which they designate as ‘MP’ a bit crunchy…but that might just be my experience.
I haven’t had any issues with TX springs and can be easily bought nowadays from mekibo.
Seconded. TX longs are my current favorites.
Two stage springs 
I actually do use the kineticlab springd in most of my tactiles cuz it makes the return so much more satisfying