About Springs

Here is a GH post on what goes into testing springs and force curves from @Pylon that might also help shed some light on understanding some of the marketing terms behind the multitude of springs available in this hobby.

I have a pretty varied selection of springs from swapping and making Frankenswitches that I might be able to find a handful of the same linear and tactile switches and put together a spring tester for you to try out if you are in the continental U.S.

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@d3L7r0n Thank you for that offer!

I have a few question about terms. Is operating force the same as actuating force? Is it used consistently this way with all vendors/manufacturers? I’m asking because some vendors provide actuating force, others operating force. Many vendors do not consistently provide information about springs (e.g., type, pre-travel, total travel, length). Is there a place where we can find this information?

Is actuating force used in the same way with Tactiles and Linears? In Tactiles, is this when we hit the bump, while in Linears is it when it actuates?

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@billy The way actuating force works with tactiles differs from the way with linears due to the bump. The Goat wrote about it.

Actuating force is definitely not bottom-out but the point at which the switch registers the key press. I feel like operating force should be the same thing but is not used consistently.

You’re absolutely right that manufacturers’ way of talking about these things and which information they provide varies widely.

The best thing to compare for linear is total force/bottom-out force. You can then consider that long springs will be a little harder to press initially but have a less steep incline in the force graph, while short springs will have a low initial force but steeper line, and standard (~15mm) will be in the middle.

Reduced travel will also mean you need to exert that force for less time, so that can make heavier springs more approachable sometimes.

For tactiles, the bump size and shape complicate things.

Theremin Goat’s switch measurements exceed the scope of his actual reviews substantially. You can usually find something here.

Pylon appears above in this thread and also publishes measurements made with a force meter I think they devised, though I’m not well informed on that.

EDIT: For trading and so-on, you may find opportunities right here. I also recommend investigating whether you have a local keeb meetup group with a Discord. Many cities and subregions have one.

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@Halfling_Barista Again, thank you. Theremin Goat’s figures, at least in the link, are his personal qualitative assessment. It’s helpful, but it seems that he favors heavier switches than me. I was hoping that someone has compiled quantitative measurements (actuation force, total/bottom-out force, spring length, spring type, pre-travel, total travel, tactile force, tactile position, etc.). Then I could see which switches I like and use those quantitative measurements as a sort of guide when considering new switches, realizing that quantitative measurements don’t tell the whole story. This, I think, would be a lot easier than trolling through vendor pages, getting the specs (which are often not complete), and then transcribing those to my own spreadsheet. Basically, I’m lazy.

Thanks also for the advice about trading…

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Sorry, you’re right about that link, but this is the repository I meant to link.

It’s his actual measured force curves.

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@Halfling_Barista , Thanks again!

I’m interested in compiling a basic Excel Worsksheet for switches that might help people to compare basic specs in one place. I’m not an engineer and have no equipment to measure force. I also don’t have a budget to purchase switches. So, I’m hoping to rely on data that is already out there. It’s a bit maddening to navigate from page to page to get the data, but if that’s what it takes. I thought to construct an Excel sheet with fields below. The fields I was thinking of are:
Manufacturer
Switch Name
Switch Type (Linear, Linear Silent, Tactile, Tactile Silent, Clicky)
Actuation Force
Operating Force
Tactile Force
Tactile Position
Bottom Out (g)
Spring Length
Spring Type
Pre-Travel (actuation distance or in tactiles possibly when you feel the bump)
Total Travel (bottom out distance)
No. of Pins
Housing Top Material
Housing Bottom Material
Stem Material
Mount Type (not sure if this is needed or much data exists)

I looked at some of Theremingoat’s files located in the link provided by @Halfling_Barista. Thereminegoat has the raw data in a csv file and processed data in an excel file. I can’t figure out the formulas he’s using to extract the data from the raw data. For example, in the csv he presents one table, but in the excel file he divides the data into upstroke and downstroke. The csv does not have an upstroke/downstroke field. It’s also not clear to me where the actual measurable data begins and ends. His Excel file has a summary table in the DataTable Worksheet with two of the variables that I have identified in my list: Total Stem Travel and Bottom Out Force. I assume that these are reliable figures and would be useful to use as a source of data. I’m not sure what he means by Peak Force?

Feedback would be greatly appreciated:

  1. Is this a foolish/useless quest? No need to hold back. I’d rather hear it now than later.
  2. Am I replicating something that already exists?
  3. Are there other data sources where useful data exists that is more accessible than vendor pages?
  4. Any suggestions to improve the field list are welcome.

Another idea, if people do find this useful, would be to set up the worksheet/data as a community accessible project. If people think this is potentially useful, I would open a new thread to consolidate discussion in one place.

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In this hobby, everything comes down to preference. What sounds and feels great to someone else may not to you. Listening to sound clips online will never surpass listening to them in person. What someone deems as the “perfect” spring weight, tactile bump, or travel may not be that to you…

There is no Perfect Switch out there, only what is Perfect For You In Your Particular Build. You will go through a bit of trial and error to find it, but the journey is half of the fun. The way I went about it is to find a switch that I really like and then try switches similar to it to figure out what it is about that switch that I liked.

Spring weight is only one aspect to a switch and something I usually will try to consider towards the end. Finding a pretty good switch and then spring swapping it can alter the sound and tactility (if that is your thing) so understanding what sound (and tactility feel, if applicable ) you are looking for is likely something I would try to isolate first. Then you can try to find a spring that either enhances that with a weight that is comfortable for all day use.

Don’t get too into the weeds with it as there are so many other areas of customization in this hobby that finding your Endgame is a long-running joke. :wink:

Also, if you want to create a database all your own for your findings and ratings, then I would say do so! Insights lead to discussion and further research which keeps this hobby alive and growing!:grin:

Every finding and opinion has value to at least one person here :+1::+1:

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Great advice. Thank you. I was not considering the fact that springs could be easily swapped so had that as my first criteria instead of toward the end. Your approach makes sense, but say I have a switch that has a sound that I like, how do you find other switches that might sound like it?

Tactility? I see a lot of terminology but just don’t have the experience to make much sense of it. Or I have unrefined fingers. Some of these posts sound like a wine connoisseur describing taste. If I buy a bottle of wine I look at price and alcohol content, measurables. Admittedly not the best strategy but if I aim low enough and the bottle is a bust, I haven’t wasted too much money. I know, I’m in the wrong hobby. But I really love keyboards.

For sound, this is where things can get interesting. Almost all switches will list what their top and bottom housings are comprised of, as well as their stems.

I look at these as “Ingredients,” and list them as so on my switch containers.

Different ingredients in the same recipe will lead to different “flavors.”

You are coming into the hobby at what may be the best time as there so many more new “ingredients” out there by a slew of companies. This means you will probably never have to worry about trying to make your Perfect Switch by disassembling several others for their parts (unless you want to… Those are referred to as “Frankenswitches” and that’s a whole other rabbit hole!)

I would suggest spending some time on @ThereminGoat’s site where he has posts such as A Beginner’s Guide to Switches and Switch Plastics: A Memo that explain this stuff much better than my tangent-proned ass ever could :person_facepalming:

As far as tactility is concerned, you will sometimes see folks describing the feeling of the bump during actuation of a tactile switch. They will even sometimes describe it with letters like “P, D, or b” for where the bump resides during travel. This will also come down to preference.

Some words of warning as there have been friendships lost and marriages destroyed between discussions of tactile versus linear switches, so prepare to trudge through a lot of articles, forum posts, and videos where they proclaim things like “____ makes the best switches” as that will all change in a few weeks when another new switch comes out. Do your best to to avoid financial ruin by succumbing to FOMO and picking up a batch of the “Hot Switch of the Week.”

Don’t make the same mistake I have, young Padawan!! :confounded::money_with_wings::money_with_wings::money_with_wings:

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