spring weight definitely makes a difference. I swapped some 30g sprits into my choc robins (50g or so stock) and they got significantly higher pitched. Really interesting.
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I used mStone 55g two-stage springs in a Cherry black board and, like before, what seemed tad heavy in switch tester felt just fine in-use. Two-stage springs made the switch feel more bouncy which I liked. I suspect three-stage is similar but will defer judgement until I can try them in-use.
So, if youāre comfortable with TX 60g long (16mm), 55g two-stage should be fine.
What I canāt figure out is how āstageā springs are supposed to make a difference? Couldnāt you achieve the same thing by simply increasing the length of the spring or tightness of the coils? Maybe the āstageā aspect (tightly coiled like on the ends of traditional springs) is more for structural integrity. I have noticed that longboi springs tend to malform a lot easier while Iām building with them.
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for realsies? Daaaamnā¦ thanks for the info. Iām greatful for this insight.
I have found that the stage springs (well, the 2 stage 63.5 Tecsee springs anyway) do feel different. I feel a swell of force in the middle of the press while typing. I had a friend try a switch with a two stage spring, totally blind (by testing standards that is), and he thought that it had similarities to a tactile switch as he felt the same thing. Donāt get me wrong, they still feel like linears, and maybe it is due to my exact particular setup, but they do feel different to me.
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but you arenāt implying that you feel light and then strong and then light again, right? Because thatās got to be physically impossible due to the way springs work. Are you saying that you feel light and then quickly heavier as the press goes down?
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This has been my perception so far; long springs seem to chatter against the housing less when they have tighter coil sections - but thatās definitely an un-scientific impression from me at the moment.
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No, I donāt mean that the force is more in the middle of the press than at the bottom. I think I perceive the most drastic change in force in the middle of the press. I also notice it as much when pressing really slowly. I have to put this spring in multiple switches as well, as they are only in TTC Wilds right now ā Iām not sure what is the larger contributing factor here.
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Fuzzy on theory but itās easy enough to see how they behave differently under pressure, using a thin stick to prevent the spring from buckling. With 3-stage spring, outer stages compress faster than inner stage, meaning coil gaps in the middle stage is wider than top and bottom stages.
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Installed mStone 55g three-stage springs into my Cream board. As before, not heavy in-use. Extra bounce made the switch feel more alive. Not sure why same spring felt less lively with Cherry blacks.
So I lucked out and was being able to use all four variety of long springs. If youāre comfortable with TX 60g long (16mm) like me, following 4 mStone springs are in your range. Try any one of them if youāre looking to spice things up a bit.
- 55g 18mm
- 55g 20mm
- 55g two-stage
- 55g three-stage
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I have 58g 2-stage and 56g 3-stage and the 3-stage feels heavier IMO.
And I donāt have facts, but the two spring feels normal on the way down but u can say it have two springs making it snappier on the way up.
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Same w/mStone springs, at least when tested in switch tester. And I wouldnāt be surprised if springs from different manufacturers feel differently.
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This is my opinion on multi-stage springs after using them for a few days:
- They make linear switch key press wobbly. Iād have called it swervy if the feel was consistent but this feels different each time.
- Three-stage springs wobble more than two-stage springs.
YMMV of course. For me, this is as far as Iāll go with multi-stage springs. Extra bounce is enjoyable for sure but I donāt want this distracting wobble in all of my boards.
I did like 18mm and 20mm single-stage springs so will be getting more of them. 16mm is very nice also and highly recommended as a starter if youāre looking to trying beyond simple linear feel.
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Yep, this more linear springs are perfect for lowering the bottom out weight without having return issues, because in the end, the spring weight at the tactile event is still heavier than the standard 15mm spring weight of a heavier spring at half travel.
The graph at the begining of this post should help understand the idea xd
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I realize that this is an ancient post and probably wonāt get a response. But I found the thread interesting. I donāt understand K, the spring constant. How is this determined? I donāt understand how a longer spring would have a lower spring constant.
Take a 2 mm spring vs a 4 mm spring all other things being equal. Letās say that the bottom out distance is 1 mm. The 2 mm spring will have 1 mm of preload and will require 1 mm of travel. The 4 mm spring will have 3 mm of preload and 1 mm of travel. So it seems to me that the 4 mm spring will take more force to depress (3 mm preload vs 1 mm preload) and will snap back quicker. I think Iām not understanding something.
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Iām donāt have knowledge about the spring constant, but my understand regarding preload is the same as yours, based on old threads here. The preload will result in your push starting at a heavier part of the springās compression, so it will take more force initially and snap back quicker. Subjectively, a lot of other variables enter into how heavy it feels in use vs. a shorter spring.
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@Halfling_Barista thanks for your thoughts. Iāve found some switches are just too tiring to use. Understanding what to look out for helps. Basically keeping an eye on bottom out force and spring length might give me an idea about switch suitability.
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Dunno if you saw this one above. This is helpful.
I went through a similar process to discover anything above 60gf bottom-out was summoning ulnar nerve RSI via the left small fingers, though they would be fine for the rest. Also, a medium to large bump tactile would cause it regardless of spring weight (I tried 53gf springs in a tactile to find this out.)
I settled on 60gf total in a standard length spring as pretty much my ideal weight once I experienced it in the CJs, though they have some variability on paper. Itās a nice weight that Iād recommend, if you havenāt tried it. Lighter than that, for me, becomes prone to typos but can be nice at times.
After typing on those and 60gf long springs in the TTC Aces for 6-12 months, I found that I now enjoy 63gf bottom out standard and long springs without issue and am starting to see that as my default weight. I still like 60gf, but the standard length ones are starting to feel a little light. I guess I built up the right muscles.
Total travel will also come into play. You may find a given weight too heavy with full travel but more suitable with reduced travel, since you simply donāt have to push it as far. I personally prefer full travel or something only slightly reduced, like around 3.8 mm, but ymmv.
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Again, I really appreciate your thoughts on this, and I like your approach. I have to be more methodical because itās too easy to bounce around with this seemingly endless variation of switches (and growing), and unfortunately I donāt have an endless budget. Not to mention the wastefulness of having switches that may never get used again. Iāve stopped going to the content creators for āadviceā because the ābestā is quite personal in this hobby, which is one of the things that is appealing.
I wonder if there are any groups where we could exchange, give away, or sell, keyboard related stuff, like keycaps and switches. I realize that this would be geographically specific, but it would be interesting to get shelved stuff back in circulation.
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