Yes.
I mean, here in this thread, you can see the customer managed to properly assemble their first custom keyboard on their own, with help from the internet. Which is actually somewhat impressive, given how tricky stabilizers are, and the unintuitive nature of some of the parts.
But they almost failed at the last hurdle, because they had to struggle with VIA and a lack of / cryptic directions from the distributor.
I can understand your point of view in this regard. It could be seen as unacceptable when you’re paying this much money for something, that you then have to find your board on the company site, then download and install a file or two just to get it to work fully. But it wasn’t very hard to finally figure it out with some help and get it working. And I’m not even a “computer” person. I’m not illiterate, but I’m definitely not as knowledgeable as most people in here and I still figured in a fairly reasonable amount of time. And it all worked out. So I’m happy.
And I can’t believe some of you guys would consider this Neo80 an “entry level” board!? That blows my mind. This is like heavy duty as sh*t, super heavy, very solid, sound is dead or non-existent and the feel of everything is amazing. It’s this giant chunk of steel with a copper backweight and just looks amazing. To me, this looks and feels like top of the line and I can’t imagine wanting or needing to spend more money than this on a keyboard! It took me a long time to finally do this and justify the purchase. But, different strokes for different folks I guess.
I think the most confusing part is going to be trying to decide how to map the FN, Menu/Win, and CTRL keys. I never even knew this was something you could do and it’s kind of overwhelming, haha.
I also need to figure out a custom cord now for the keyboard. I wanted to get the keycaps I ordered installed and use them for a bit before I was 100% committed to this theme. Then order one of those really cool custom keyboard cords that has matching parts to the keyboard and the keycaps. And after using them for just a few hrs yesterday and today, it looks like I’m going to keep them. I love how they look and feel. It’s a big change from normal MX style keycaps, but after using them yesterday and this morning, I’m on board and really like how they feel and they look sick.
The only thing that is hard to get used to currently is the lack of backlighting. I’m coming from a Ducky One 3 TKL with RGB. So I had white backlighting and light coming through the keycap legends. It was super easy to quickly look down and locate a key that isn’t normally right in your immediate finger span. But now, I sometimes have to look harder and get closer because the keycaps I went with are a dark navy and gray/charcoal theme. So it’s hard to see them. But, I am planning on a full desktop remodel over the next 3-6 months, which will include a monitor lamp.
Going to add a 32" curved monitor on the bottom, add my current 27" on top (stacked style), a beautiful monitor/desk stand, some theme’d artwork prints to go above and around the wall and some subtle backlighting behind the monitors to finish it all off. And obviously a monitor lamp on top which will shine down onto my keyboard and desk area so I can actually see the keyboard better. It’s something that will take some time, as it won’t be cheap and I’ll have to do it piecemeal over time so I can actually afford to do it right. But it’ll be so amazing when I’m done. I’ve been planning this out for months and this was the first step.
Thank you to everyone that helped me out. I couldn’t have done this without you. Very helpful community here. I appreciate it greatly. Once I finally get the custom cord ordered and in, I’ll take pics of everything and make a separate post to show everyone.
Another question I have for you guys is about one of the stab keycaps. So all of them feel great. I can barely even tell they aren’t a regular switch and keycap. But the backspace stab/key feels a bit different.
So obviously the stabilizer keycaps are longer and there is more room and space for your finger to hit the key all over it. So in the middle, on the far edges L or R and everywhere in between. And all the other keycaps that have a stabilizer under it feel very smooth and loose. I’m using TTC Silent Frozen V2 switches. And they are everything I thought they would be. Almost dead silent in this board with the POM plate and all the foam. And they all feel so smooth, creamy and great. But the Backspace keycap when I press it feels a bit different. Only when I press it in the middle does it feel like all the others. When I press it from the left or right edge or anywhere not right in the middle over the switch, it feels a bit like it’s in sand and like there is a tiny bit more resistance? Hard to describe exactly. It’s not a rough or gravelly feeling. Just like it’s a bit slower and viscous feeling, like it’s in fine sand or something.
So does that mean it has too much lube or not enough? I watched a lot of videos and read a lot on this topic. And it seems most experienced or high end builders on YT advocate for less lube then a lot of the other videos and tutorials show or advocate. That with really good switches and stabilizers you really don’t need much lube at all for them to work really well and smoothly with minimal lube. So I didn’t put a lot of lube on anything. The insides of the stabilizers I just coated with a very thin amount. Then the actually stabilizer bars I used just a tiny bit more, but still not a lot. And all the stabs work really well except the Backspace.
So any ideas on what could be causing this feeling? And will it get better with time if I just leave it or do I need to take it apart and add more lube or take off lube? It’s not a big deal and to be honest I could totally live with it. Just wondering what could possibly be causing it. Thanks
When we say “entry level” we are mostly talking about pricing. I got a Neo Ergo & completely agree the quality is well above what would be considered “entry level” in the past. The hobby has a changed a ton since the pandemic, just a few years ago there was nothing like what Neo, QK, TDK, etc. offer available at the pricing points they can hit. Please don’t think it’s an elitist thing or any of us think less of those types of boards. 99% of us who have been in the hobby for awhile are glad to see such high quality & affordable options out there now. As it really does help the hobby grow.
Yeah, I see your guys point in this regard. It is almost like false advertising. They should either already have it work out of the box with VIA or make sure they explain thoroghly and on the main page that “some” extra work is required to get the keyboard to work with VIA. It wasn’t a big deal in the end and I figured it out with a little bit of help and I’m not even that computer literate compared to a lot of you. But again, I see your point and it’s totally valid. Something these companies should definitely be addressing and fixing. I spent a lot of money just on this board, let alone the switches, keycaps and stabilizers. Over $200 for sure. This isn’t “cheap” or a “beginners” board. It probably should come ready to work out of the box if it’s going to be geared towards new or less experienced keyboard enthusiasts looking to get into the custom high end keyboard market.
About your backspace stab, make sure it is properly clipped into the PCB first, sometimes they can be not fully seated & cause issues like you described. Also make sure they are not off skew to the right or left. With PCBs that allow for full & split backspace they have to add a bunch of extra holes to accommodate the layout options. Which can allow the stabilizer housing to move a little bit to the right or left if the stab holes connect with other holes. That can also cause the issue you’re describing. It doesn’t sound like over lubing since all the other stabilized keys are working fine, so my next guess would be one side of the satbilizers is either not seated all the way into the PCB or got skewed to one side before you locked it in with the screw. If none of that is the issue post some pics of the offending stab on the PCB & we can help you figure it out.
Yeah, I would say that comes down to my ability to problem solve and think critically. As I mentioned I’m not a computer expert. I may know more than the avg american, but I know very little compared to most people in forums like this or any forum dealing with computers or computer hardware. I have to do a lot of extra research and googling just to follow conversations and understand what is going on sometimes. But I’ve always been really good figuring things out, good with my hands, I’ve always been able to figure out how to fix things and do work around the house or on a car. Usually all it takes is a good article or video and I can get it done with minimal errors or problems. And I definitely think that helped me a lot in this situation. It could have been a lot worse for an avg person that doesn’t have all these skills. And in that case, a lot of what you guys are saying is very true and valid. A
Qwerty and other companies like them, should be marketing it differently and making sure things like this json file or whatever files are already installed so the user doesn’t have to figure this stuff out. Overall, I’d say Qwerty’s instructions, linked videos and videos already out there helped a lot. I was only a little confused or totally stumped on a few occasions and the nice people here helped out so quickly and I was able to fairly easily get past any hang ups to then finish the project.
But I could totally see the avg person not doing well and possibly breaking lots of these little delicate parts. Causing frustration and anger. It’s a tricky thing for the manufacturers to figure out the best way to do all of this. It takes a lot of time and trial and error on their part to know what to include, how to word it on the website and how they can make the entire process easier. They want to be able to sell high end custom keyboard parts at a reasonable or low cost so that people can get a really great keyboard but at an affordable price. All while giving them the most info and help they can. And ultimately they are going to leave out somethings that are critical. And they are going to have some VERY pissed off and upset customers for sure. They do warn you a lot and explain a lot. And that’s great. And because I did so much research and found out a lot about Qwertykeys and the Neo80 board before I took the plunge, I was fairly certain that even if I came up against some issues, I’d be able to either solve them myself or find help. It has a large fan base, TONS of videos online and lots of people own this board and other Neo boards. So I was pretty sure I’d figure it out or be able to find help. And I was right. But for sure they could find ways to make things even easier while keeping costs the same. I agree with you guys there.
EDIT I also forgot to mention, that even though I agree with you guys, that Qwertykeys (or any custom board builder like them) COULD make the whole process easier, that I think they did a pretty good job making potential buyers aware of the work you need to do, in order to build a fully functioning keyboard. And that there actually is a lot of help. It’s not like you’re all on your own and struggling to figure this out. I’d give their warnings and help/tips a 4 out of 5. It could be better, they could ship the boards with this json file already installed, and they could have some easier to follow instructions and make everything a bit easier, but… I felt they did a good job already. I also went into this knowing full well this is up to me. I am responsible for putting it all together and making sure it works. I had no qualms about that. But that’s because I did a lot of research beforehand and watched lots of videos and realized I could do this. But everyone is different and again, I could see at least half or more of the avg population struggling putting one of these together first time with no problems and no broken parts. They could easily break so many parts not realizing how delicate they are and how things go together properly if they had no previous experience. Just wanted to mention all of this as I felt that Qwerty did a good job, but that I agree with most of you that their could be some small improvements to make this whole experience even easier and with no additional costs to them.
Oh, ok, haha. I was like: wow, I can’t believe this guy or others would think this is an entry level board when it FAR exceeds what I though was possible and what my Ducky feels like. This thing is crazy nice and SO heavy and solid and just feels and sounds like a dream. Thanks for the follow up explanation. This is my first custom board, I only just got the Ducky two years ago and thought at the time it was the coolest thing I’d ever senn, haha. So I don’t know all the history and backstory about pricing and how the hobby has grown in such a short time. Good to know though. Thanks for sharing.
And it is really cool that things like this exist now, knowing they didn’t used to. To be able to buy the parts yourself and put together a board that is this incredible for around 200ish give or take is unbelievable after seeing the complete/fully built custom board prices. And you still can’t even “custom” build it. You can only chose from a certain amount of limited options. Going this route literally allows you to chose every single part exactly how you want. It’s amazing and was SO much fun.
It reminds me of when I decided to build my custom Santa Cruz Megatower MTB a few years back. I was like, I’m already spending all this money on an off the rack bike, might as well spend a bit more and get every part how I want. And my buddy and I built it over a year long period so I could afford different parts and actually get them and it turned out INSANE! I LOVE that bike and it rides like a dream. And this keyboard and the whole process of researching which one to go with, then buying the parts and finally putting it all together was a blast. I don’t want to do it again (haha), it’s a lot of work and my neck is KILLING me from craning over so much and using magnifying readers to see things, a headlamp to light up the parts so I can actually see them, etc, haha. It was 3-4 hrs a day over a few different weekends to get it all done. But it was worth it and I absolutely love it.
My first modern Mech was a Drevo Calibur v1 70%. I thought that thing was an insane value at the time with its (wonky) bluetooth and per-key lighting. The “expensive” boards back then were Filcos and Das Keyboards (and WTH was my spider-dance headbob typing going to do with blank caps?). I was actually happy with that Drevo, and a couple of other similar no-name full-sizes for work, but the Drevo was my favorite. I had some vintage-looking beige OEM caps on it, though I paid extra to get the set with the red ESC key LOL, and I drilled a hole in caps lock so the LED could shine through and filled/diffused it with a spot of hot glue. I have since removed the battery because it was getting old (and the BT never worked well anyway), and I plugged the micro-USB port with a magnetic connector. I think I did a tape mod while I was in there because why not? I dunno.
I don’t use it much these days because one of the keys (‘B’ I want to say?) became consistently inconsistent, but one of these days I may make a new higher-profile case for it and replace its switches with something more to my currents tastes. It’s a good layout, the “FRL TKL,” with enough keys and all in normal places such that the factory layer is usually usable so QMK is a little less critical than with something smaller or even a 75%.
While I never stopped USING mechs, my return to shopping for them was an E-Yooso gamer board that I couldn’t believe was so cheap and even let me trade out the Outemu blues for Greens(!!!) Then I also saw how the market for caps and boards had exploded. Frankly, I never stopped being giddy about how the super budget space has evolved, but I fell into other rabbit holes, enabled by the vast amount of knowledge and components the enthusiasts made a market for.
Well, when I referred to the Neo80 as an ‘entry-level’ board, what I said was “You can get a really good board, something mid-tier from 3 years ago at entry-level pricing.”
So the Neo80 has features of a mid-tier custom [metal build, brass, shaped case] that would have cost $350-700 for the kit a few years ago, except that the Neo80 starts at $110.
So it’s mid-level features at entry-level prices. The Neo80 is not really “entry-level” in quality, and people don’t describe it as such. It’s the price that’s entry-level.
In fact, I would argue that because of technological advancement and mass-production, the Neo80 brings some high-end functions to the introductory price-tier. This would be the revolutionary catch-ball system, which seems to make a lot of boards before it seem less-advanced in design.
The Neo80 created a sensation when it was introduced precisely because it restructured the value proposition. Some said it would “break custom keyboards.” I’m not sure what they meant by that, but probably it undercut the expensive boards that didn’t offer that much more. I guess the Neo80 and other boards helped ‘break the market’ from what it was 5 years ago.
As Rob said, we’re happy to see higher-end features make it into the more reasonably-priced segment of the market. The Neo80 isn’t lacking much. I would prefer it to have extendable legs, but most people aren’t concerned about this feature. It would be nice if it could be made to flex more than it does, or more silencing, but the manufacturers also have to please those who want reduced flex and a fuller sound.
[What I really want is basically a polycarbonate Neo80, or a classic-shaped TKL with catch-ball mechanism.]
So yes, enjoy your Neo80. It would have cost hundreds more a few years ago! And without catch-ball mechanism.
Yeah, you pretty much have to order the custom cord after you’ve selected the keycaps.
With regard to lighting, many custom keyboards are made with the assumption that you are at a sufficiently-lit desk. Or that you are are good touch-typist. RGB is not on the feature-list of a lot of the nicer keyboards.
Also, as you indicate, the Neo80 isn’t entirely a ‘beginner’s’ board. It’s priced like one. But the real beginner’s boards tend to be less fancy, with fewer design elements. Something like the Keychron V / Q-series. They aren’t as fancy as a Neo80, but they often come assembled, so that you can customize it at your own pace.
A Keychron Q-series or some AliExpress custom under $100 would probably be easier to start with. The Neo80 is a ‘full custom,’ and now you know what that means.
In any case, I’m glad that your new board feels very premium. If I may ask, does you feel as if its quality comes from the metal case design, or is there something about the typing experience that feels better than a Ducky?
Yeah, I definitely have to get the custom cord. Absolute must. I’m working with Mechcables to come up with something amazing. Hopefully ordering that real soon. Just waiting to hear back from Sam about a few things first before deciding on the final options.
And yeah, I’m aware that a lot of the higher end keyboards are not RGB. Not initially a few years ago, but over the last year or so while researching prebuilt boards and custom boards I found out a lot of neat stuff. And as I’ve gotten more and more into custom keyboards/computers, I’ve also realized that I don’t really love RGB as much as I did when I first found out that computers these days have them. I remember when I saw all these insane custom built computers with all the RGB lights and crazy Mech looks and then saw that Ghost of Tsushima was finally going to be released on PC AND that I could emulate all sorts of other older consoles on a PC these days (specifically Zelda Breath of the Wild), I decided it was time to build a computer. I’m usually a console gamer IF I play games (not so much as an adult anymore, just don’t have as much time as I did when I was younger). I’ve only had Mac laptops for the last 15-20 years. I think the last desktop I had was in college, haha. But when I found out I could finally play GOT and BOTW on a PC, I was like, OOOOK, it’s time to build a custom computer, hahaha! I never played it on PS, because I haven’t bought a game console since PS2 and Wii. That probably gives away my age, haha. But I always wanted to play that game SOOO bad and knew it would probably be one of my favorite games I’ve ever played. And it didn’t disappoint. GOT is THE BEST action type game I have EVER played in my life and I’ve played through the entire game doing everything 5 times already in just 1 year. The last two on the hardest setting and it’s everything I thought it would be and more. The only game that I can honestly say is better (although it’s a totally different type of game) is the original Xenogears on PS. BEST GAME OF ALL TIME. Not even a question. The story and the game is the GOAT. 'll never forget it. GOT is pretty close though, but in a different way obviously. Same with BOTW. Absolutely STUNNING games and so amazing to come home from a horrible day at the office dealing with all the human BS and just get totally lost in those worlds has been a HUGE boost for my mental health, haha. So I made up my mind to build a custom computer exactly how I wanted and did tons of research and it was an absolute breeze to build one. And now it’s time for the keyboard and the rest of the desk setup.
My custom built computer I made about 2 years ago is a Lian Li O11 Dynamic Mini Snow White case with TL and TL LCD fans, the GA II LCD AIO cooler. Everything inside the case is white or white with silver accents, all the RGB lights are clean white everywhere, it’s absolutely sick and so clean looking. Sometimes at night when I’m gaming or just putzing around on the internet, I just sit back and marvel at how amazing all the lights, case and everything looks and can’t believe it’s a computer and that I not only own it, but built it all myself from scratch.
But… as I’ve gotten deeper into custom computers and keyboards, I’m starting to lean towards no RGB and much cleaner austere builds and boards with no lighting. My next build, whenever that is, will be a much more refined looking build. Something like the Lian Li A3-mATX or the Fractal Design Terra, Mood or North. Stuff like that. But I still love my current setup and over the next 3-6 months or so will finally be finishing my dream desk setup that I dreamt up a few years ago after seeing ALL the insane builds and setups everyone has! Lots of amazing inspiration and it has turned into my “refuge” away from the harsh, cruel, stress filled world we all must deal with everyday. Coming home, lighting some rare Japanese Incense, having a cocktail and gaming or personal computing in my computer room is SOOO relaxing and zen like. I’ll be adding some custom NASA art prints that framed on the wall. Dual monitors (34" curved on the bottom with my current 27" stacked right on top), monitor lamp, really nice looking long monitor stand, some other custom stuff like that on the desk as well. It’s gonna be so luxurious and relaxing. My little slice of heaven for a few hrs certain nights. I’ve been planning it out for half a year or more and have it all planned out and ready to go. Just need to start buying the parts as I go along.
When I got the Ducky keyboard, that was the first time I had ever even known about or seen a mechanical keyboard other than the generic keyboards that come with computers at work or the like. Then I saw a few cheapo keyboards on the internet and then the Ducky. I did some prelim research and the info was saying that yes, you could buy a cheap 60-80 keyboard on amazon or wherever and it would be Ok more than likely. But then you’d just want to upgrade to a Ducky anyways. Plus, this is back when I only wanted all white everything for my computer setup I’ve been putting together for a few years. It’s morphed from all white, to a mix of white, silver and gray’s. And the Ducky was apparently a “really good” keyboard and was all white and I loved that I could make all the lighting white as well. And it was great to get me into the hobby. But after a few months of it and getting exposed to the broader selection of keyboards out there ranging from good stock “custom” Keychrons all the way up to these 400-500 customs, I realized the Ducky was pretty basic and that there was SOOO much more out there to do. Custom EVERYTHYING; keycaps galore, switches of every single type, feel, silent, clacky, etc. It was really fun learning and exploring and finding all these new bits and pieces to the entire custom keyboard world out there.
So the quality feeling of this Neo80 compared to the Ducky or any other keyboard I’ve ever tried comes down to a few things. Firs and foremost, the weight of the board is insane. It’s SO heavy compared to all other keyboards and that definitely plays a big part in the insanely solid, grounded feel and dead sound. The metal case also plays a big role. The Ducky is mostly plastic and it squeaks and makes sounds and flexes and just feels a lot less premium now that I have this board. It’s not a low end keyboard by any means though. Like before I had this Neo, the Ducky felt good. I knew it wasn’t like the best of the best or anything, but it was around 120 or maybe even a bit more and that isn’t cheap for a prebuilt non custom board. But everyone was saying it would be worth it, as it’s so much better than the other cheaper boards that are similar and you’d just regret buying the cheaper board and get a Ducky down the road anyways. So I just bought the Ducky and I really enjoyed it for the time I’ve had it. I still have it currently, but put it up for sale on eBay some some other enthusiast can enjoy it now. But now that I have the Neo, and have been using it for almost a week, it’s a big difference. The feel is so ridiculously solid, dead, silent and the weight and metal play the biggest part there. And then of course the TTC Silent Frozen V2 switches are just insanely quiet and smooth and pillowy feeling. And I love that they are linear and have none of that weird second press feel where the initial press is lighter and then it takes more pressure to get over the hump and fully depressed. I can’t stand that feel on most mechanical keyboards. I’ve used Mac laptops almost my entire adult life and have grown accustom to that super low travel, silent, linear, plush, pillowy feel. There is virtually no noise what so ever with these switches and the Neo board/case. Then the Swagkeys Knight V3 stabs are fantastic and were very easy to install. They feel almost the exact same as any of the keys. And then I decided on the O ring inside the board, both foams and the PE sheet. I wanted maximum pillowy feel and maximum silence and everything came out as good or better than I imagined it would! I’m actually a bit shocked HOW silent and how solid and stable it all feels. It’s crazy.
Funy thing is, I almost bought a Keychron TKL multiple times the few months before I finally made up my mind to give the custom built route a try. I was looking at the Q3 Pro or Q3 Max and actually had them in the cart and almost pressed purchase multiple times. The second time they were on sale and $20-40 off the normal price. But I just kept thinking that the reason I’m getting this keyboard to replace the Ducky is to get something that is completely custom and MUCH better quality, feel and sound, not just a slightly better version of the same thing I already have. I actually really like the look of a lot of Keychrons boards and keycaps. Same with Nuphy. In fact, I’m already really digging that new preorder Air75 V3. It would be nice to have 2 options and one that still has RGB for late night dark sessions. Plus it has those super thin low profile keycaps that I love. I can’t imagine I won’t be buying one of those at some point, haha.
Sorry for the long rambling response. I’m two vape bowls into some KILLER Motorbreath and just having non stop amazing thoughts and reminiscing about stuff, haha.
Oh, another thing I just realized after using my Ducky last night for the RGB at night. The Neo80, with the switches and keycaps all make for a lot more stable keycaps. Meaning, the Ducky keycaps kind of wobble, squawk/squeak and have play to them. The new keyboard has maybe 1% or less. It’s virtually wobble free. No play or movement. Again, adding to the extremely solid, dead, and silent feel and sound making it feel so much more luxurious and “high end”. In addition, the stabilizers are vastly different in sound and feel between my stock Ducky and the custom Neo80. Absolutely LOVE this board!
I’m also constantly waiting/contemplating getting a 34" ultrawide as well (mainly for more immersive gaming as I don’t find it that helpful for productivity at least for current me). Planning on doing the same monitor setup with my current 27" stacked on top of the ultrawide.