Aside from the the feel, one thing that attracted me to ALPS is the sound, specifically tumbling wooden marble sound as can be heard in this video by Taeha.
Unknowns to me:
Can Matias produced similar sound? I doubt it but won’t hurt to ask.
What are the key factors behind the sound?
I’ve read somewhere that ALPS sound better with plastic case. What about plate. Do case and plate paddings affect ALPS differently? ALPS keycap options are very limited so not likely a factor I can do much about but any tips on how different ALPS keycaps affect sound would at least help me recognize when must buy deal hits me in the face.
Combination of the case and keycaps. The plate probably plays some role as well but I am not sure as I always used steel plates.
I have a Matias Tactile Pro (clicky) that is all plastic and it sounds ‘hollow’, I do not like it as much as all aluminium case + steel mount plate. Here is a mix of various vintage Alps + clicky matiases in the same enclosure for comparison (alu case, steel plate, thick PU keycaps):
44 disassembled Matias QC switches. Disassembly these took long than MX switches. Lube is needed in many places bc the switch tend to rattle like empty can does: spring, side-rails, stem sides and top area.
ALPS switches have a large flat bottom. I’m going to experiment with tape modding it with whatever I got around the house. PC sucks when it comes to sound so it needs all the help it can get.
For those wondering how Matias QC with Dimply3 mod feels like, it’s different from anything I’ve tried before. If I had to draw its force graph based on feel, it’d look similar to common log graph: declining ledge followed by a curve that flatten over times.
If you have some Matias QC switches, give it a try and share what you think of the feel and whether you like it.
Since my first ALPS build will be a Planck to be used as macro pad, I need a set of blanks. Found one in XDA profile at KPRepublic. All were sold out except for two XD75 sets. XD75 is all 1U keycaps so I’ll have to forget about having 2U mute button. Price was reasonable ($23) and slow-lane shipping was free.
Going by the photo, these look decently thick. I’ve been using Tai-Hao ALPS keycaps for testing but they have thin walls and made out of hard plastic that makes undesirable noise. I’ll need to experiment with some fillers, starting with Blu-Tack for easy removal.
I have a set of Cubic keycaps that I filled with epoxy-resin. Extra weight feels nice on MX switches. Not sure if same will be true for ALPS. Keymacs video I saw used custom polyurethane keycaps seem to suggests it is although I didn’t quite like the way keycap sound characteristic dominated over switch-specific sound.
Almost all vintage Alps keycaps were thin ABS except for Apple’s Macintosh key sets that were quite thick PBT.
Generally Alps are thought to sound better with thin ABS, but that may just apply to clickies.
Another quirk I’ve found is that vintage Alps tend to come on thin steel plates (1-1.2mm) with a lot,of mounting points that eliminated the ping you would get using a thin plate like that on a modern board.
Lots of quirks with Alps. They are fun. Mechanicalkeyboards.com carry gold plated alps springs if you want to play around with spring weight.
Thanks for the pings, I mean tips. I’m finding that controlling extraneous noises like pings is one of the secrets to great sounding ALPS board. I spent some time experimenting to find essential lubing points on Matias and so far came up with these:
Confirmed Areas:
A1: Housing slider rails and top areas above rails meet
A2: Stem sides, especially ridges
A3: Stem step tops
A4: Springs
Inconclusive Areas:
B1: Back of tactile leaf with dielectric grease - I’ve not noticed any difference. Maybe Matias QC tactile leaf tolerance is tight enough.
B2: Top halves of stem’s flat area - this area doesn’t touch the leaves but may scrape the side of the housing top opening. Need more testing to see if lube improves anything here.
Optional Areas:
C1: Contact leaf - made switch feel slightly smoother but unlubed leaf offered a distinct feel that’s pretty good too. Without using the switch daily, it’s difficult to tell which I’d like.
C2: Tactile Leaf - transition between tactile leaf to contact leaf felt a lot smoother.
UPDATE: Decided to lube both contact and tactile leaves. They helped improve consistency across switches.
Unfortunately no, here is a typing sound of Matias with clicky switches (I have the exact same board and I confirm that it sounds like that): https://youtu.be/_Nv9_LoLn5c?t=671
Factors behind sound is basically everything: case, plate, keycaps, desk, other things being on the desk, floor, acoustics of the room, etc… and if we’re talking about a online typing video then there is additionally mic on the creator side and speakers on the other side.
With my first ALPS board on its track, I’m thinking ahead to future builds. Main reason I went for simple rounded curve shape for contact leaf is consistency. But I think the first shape with two bends I accidently ran into feels better. What’s missing is a way to easily and consistently reproduce the same shape.
Least complicated method is two bend two reasonably thick (0.7~1mm) sheet metal bent the same way so all I have to do is put the think copper contact leaf arm between the two sculpted sheet metals and press. Wolla.
Like math, now the problem has shifted to bending two sheet metals into shape I want with tools I have.
Doh. I’m so stupid sometimes. There is a simpler solution: 3D printing. Contact leaf is very thin and bends easily so all that’s needed is a schematic to make a 2-piece (top and bottom halves) contact leaf reshaper. It could even have sections to press the tactile leaf against to change the angle consitently.
The best part is that, once designed, anyone can order a copy and use it to make a custom tactile switch out of Matias switch. If they think it could be better, they could just fork the design. The same cannot be done with MX switches because most of the tactility is in the plastic stem where, with ALPS, it’s all in leaves.
Only after putting the Planck together, a major flaw of Matias switches surfaced: it’s difficult to put top housing back on with switch soldered. I ripped one open unintentionally while removing a keycap and broke the contact leaf while putting it back.
Placing the top housing in-place is tricky enough with spring and tactile leaf in the way. Somehow slipping both parts of the contact leaf into their respective slots in the top housing at the same time is a touchy-feely guess work. If you guess wrong, leaf gets bent out of shape.
Only conclusion I can make that the idiot who designed the switch must’ve only played with the switch bottom-side up. Unless there is some trick I’m not aware of, forget about cleaning or modding Matias switches without desoldering.
This is inherent in all switches using the simplified Alps design, not only Matiases. In fact, some of the Alps clones are so difficult to assemble that most folks do not dare to open them.
nice work here… yes approximating the tactile leaves of oranges using Matias contact leaves (with 3d printed vises) would be amazing. great research work here on Alps switches
I took out the tactile leaf from the modified Matias and it felt surprisingly good, neither linear nor tactile but something in-between. Hard to describe so drew up what I imagine its force graph may be like, along with names in knife blade type theme.
“Matias Bowie” is what I named Dimply3. It starts out QC with a sharp bump followed by a smooth curve.
“Matias Persian” is Dimply3 without the tactile leaf. Not like SKCM Brown’s 9-month pregnant rounded bump but more like a 2 pizza lunch belly curve. As mentioned above, surprisingly pleasant.
I now have a good enough understanding of how this switch works and am reasonably confident that full or near SKCM Brown and Orange experiences can be recreated with some changes to the contact leaf and housing.
That would require getting the switch manufacturer (was it OEMed by Outemu?) involved and, if that happened, I’d want more changes to the switch while at it so the switch can be used with MX PCB, plate, and keycaps. Who wouldn’t want a MX compatible switch with ALPS like feel and sound?
Just finished shucking 87 ALPS to make enough Bowies for a TKL. This leaves just enough to make a 60% with which I think I’ll go with Persians when I get rest of the parts.
I’m finding that controlling extraneous noises like pings is one of the secrets to great sounding ALPS board. I spent some time experimenting to find essential lubing points on Matias and so far came up with these:
