Bowl-shaped grinder Dremel bits arrived. Result from sharpening the tip of one Kailh Black v2 stem (it was hard to see the tip so I had to max exposure).
Among 12 bits I received for $8 something, I chose one that fits just right so only edges would touch. It took a bit more force than I expected but this is what I ended up with. Total length didn’t change but now it has a narrower tip. The stem on the right is the original Kailh Black v2 stem.
Tested and verified that the sharpened stem in a Cherry Black no longer gets squeezed at the end. Sound profile changed to long pole-like sound but that’s to be expected.
I’ve been using two sets of New Nixies for a while. Older set was just lubed with 205g0. Newer set was coated 3 times with RO-59 then lubed with 205g0. They sound and feel different. RO-59 set sounds cleaner and slightly lower-pitched. Feel wise, RO-59 set feels cleaner and less buttery, as if the lube is sliding on bonded sheet of PTFE, yet that snug feel is still there unlike 3203/4 which feels looser and noisier.
WARNING: RO-59 can be very labor intensive to use.
So, I’ve been trying a bit of a hybrid technique with RO-59 and my PTFE powder.
I will apply one coat of RO-59 to the stem and stem post hole. I will let that air dry for an hour or two, and then take a dry brush and dip it into my PTFE powder and dust the stem and pole (like I am dusting for prints🕵️) and then reassemble the switch.
If you leave a light enough coat of PTFE powder on the dry-to-lightly tacky RO-59 coat, you should end up with at least as much PTFE on the stem as you likely would from applying two or three coats and wasting 24 hours.
There will be some initial light scratchiness, put that actually seems to go away quite quickly with a few dozen actuations.
The PTFE will continue to break down into finer granules and end up filling the micro-scratches in the mating surfaces between the stem and the housing. The switch will still feel light and fast, and almost none of the switches character is muddled from a layer of oil or grease, unless you choose to add some.
I find it’s excellent at eliminating stick-slip in switches with similar housing/stem compositions.
Currently in the middle of doing a set of Cherry Reds. Will give your method a try with next set which I think would be Cherry Browns. Thanks for the suggestion.
Plate affects switch feel - Same switch feels tighter when plate fits tighter in the sense there are less gap around the switch. So called “open plate”, kind that lets you open the switch in-place, has the loosest feel in my tests.
Inclined case front feels awkward - Apple M110 replica felt weird to type on but couldn’t pinpoint the cause. Using a wrist pad helped so I suspect the the problem has to do with the inclined front and how I type.
Sharing a RO-59 tip I recently learned by experimenting:
Wash Before Use: After applying 3 coats of RO-59, wash the stems in soapy luke warm water and dry before using or lubing. I also added baking soda but not sure it helps or not.
Found this after lubing some RO-59 coated switches and found that some of the switches were not consistently smooth. There were spots that felt scratchy. I suspected it was some residue left behind from coating with RO-59, maybe particles that failed to bond fully.
To test the theory, I wiped the lubed stems with a tissue then re-lubed them. Result was much more consistently smooth switches. I think just wiping the stems with a tissue is not as effective as applying some lube then wiping.
With the batch that followed, I tried washed them before lubing and found that it worked just as well in making the switches consistently smooth.
Finished coating full set of Cherry Reds with RO-59. Three coats as usual, each coat taking at least 24 hours to fully bond. Still needs to wash and dry before lubing and filming. To me, this is the hobby. Not that different from painting D&D pieces or plastic models.
Before starting on doing the same with Cherry Browns, I’m going to experiment with acoustic dampening aspect of RO-59. I’ve read some time ago that Teflon supposedly dampens some frequency bands and have observed coating the plastic stems and housing lowers pitch slight. This time, I want to see what effect teflon has on acoustics of metal parts, like contact leaf and spring.
Experiment Result: RO-59 did reduce spring but not as much as lubing. RO-59 had no observable difference to contact leaf rattle.
Conclusion: RO-59 is not useful for spring pings and contact leaf rattles.
Started coating Cherry Browns with RO-59. I coated one while working on the Cherry Red. Initially didn’t feel special. Smoother and deeper sounding without much noise but mundane still. After 2~3 days, they started to feel distinct from all the light tactile switches I’ve used before. The bump got more noticeable too while remaining light-tactile’s typical man-nipple like bump.
Meet Cherry Brown, Charlie Brown!
Lesson learned: On top of waiting 24 hours after each coat for teflon layer to bond, wait 3 days after last coating before using.
Still todo: Find the best board (among boards I have) for this switch.
Still unknown: How they’d feel and sound in-use.
Finished coating the first set of Cherry Browns a few days ago. Using them to type this message. Paired with Black Lotus’ two-stage spring to magnify tactility, I don’t think anyone would recognize these as Cherry Browns. Dang.
It was so tedious, I didn’t start on the remaining set until this morning. Even then, I resorted to using a small tub with lid. I was apprehensive about wasting the stuff but loss wasn’t bad so may do remaining coats the same way if nothing looks amiss. Hopefully, tubbing will produce same result as brushing the stuff on.
Looked into Vertrel XF. While there were a lot of technical information about the degreaser, I couldn’t find much information how to use the stuff. But wordings suggest it’s mostly used in vapor form. That makes sense given that the chemical evaporates really fast.
Since I don’t want to setup vapor-chamber, I’m going to try using a small air-tight plastic tub. The idea is to let Vertrel XF evaporate in the tub filled with switch parts and let time do the work vapor-chamber heating does. Afternoon sunlight should help as well. Hope this works.
I coat only switch stems and bottom housing rails. I tried coating parts of contact leaf touching the stem legs but didn’t see much improvement.
Process
While applying, RO-59 looks and feels like thin milk. Difficult to see missed spots.
After 3~5 hours, thin milk expands into thicker jelly-like substance with glistening surface soft to the touch. If you touched the surface, use a brush to smooth out finger prints.
After another 3~5 hours, thicker jelly deflates and leaves behind a matted surface still soft to the touch.
After awhile, thicker jelly disappears, leaving behind a stem with hard glistening surface.
Waiting
At least 24 hours is needed to fully cure each coating layer. No hard scientific basis for this. Longer curing time just seems to improve the result.
I gradually shifted to waiting 24~36 hours with first two layers and 48 hours with last layer.
Shortcuts
Leaving it out in sunlight expedites the process. I haven’t tried but I think device like toaster or airfryer should also help if temperature can be controlled.
Tubbing or bagging works but that uses up RO-59 faster than brushing. I compromised by tubbing first two layers then brushing the final layer.
Current Status
Finished coating the second half of Cherry “Hyperglide” Brown set. Whether looks good so I’m going to leave it outside in the backyard to give the final layer some more TLC. This set will be paired with 58g CK Slow Springs to turbocharge the wimpy bump.
Successfully degreased 100+ Cherry MX Clear stems using Vertrel XF vapor. They feel like new now. I started coating one MX Clear stem with RO-59 to see whether rest of the pile is worth coating or not. First layer looks pretty good, surface glistening instead of usual matte clorox white.
UPDATE: Tactile switches will likely need some use or time on polishing machine to address initial scratchiness around the bump since legs won’t be lubed. Doesn’t take much though. I just took what I had nearby, a roll of garbage bags, and kept rolling it across the keyboard while I watched a TV show (you’ll need a earphone if you do the same). Now it’s damn smooth with bumps still mostly intact.
Finished and deployed the set of RO-59 coated Cherry Browns. Now I have three boards with coated Cherry switches in daily rotation: Cherry Browns, Reds, and New Nixies. Reds is just alt for Blacks bc I have way too many polished Blacks already.
When I’m more confident about degreasing process, I’m going to degrease the polished blacks and coat them with RO-59.
Test on coated Cherry Clear stem is still ongoing. Cherry Clear stem material seems different than that of other Cherry stems.
Most recent long-pole linear I liked is BSUN X. No notable negatives other than shortened key travel (3.5mm) which with this switch was surprisingly not as noticeable as others.
Distinct sound (solid mid to low pitch sound on the loud side). It’s good enough to use stock, no film, although I’m going to try lubing before transplanting to another board. To me, it has the potential to be a modern classic like NK Cream. Switches I put in that category are kind that I find myself returning to again and again.
Interesting! That shortened key travel actually sounds like something right up my alley haha. Have you tried the Pine switches or Mocha ST switches by loobed?
I’m amazed at the rate all these new linear switches are being introduced these days. Dizzying actually - They’re might be a new “best linear” introduced, but it gets buried under all the other stuff that only have minute differences between each other.
I ordered the V1’s unlubed and lubed them myself, but I have heard both good and bad things about the factory lube options on them, so it’s up to you. For the price, they are outstanding.
I will second @donpark on the BSUN X’s. Nice out of the box with nice sound. I may crack those open to bag lube the springs as I get very light spring crunch, but can only hear it in hand…
If you aren’t sensitive to that or you even kind of dig it, those are a great “cheaper” option as well.
