Gateron Cap - Brown?

Sometimes I bottom out and sometimes I don’t, it depends on the mood I guess. But if the springs are heavier, it is going to be heavier no matter how I type. A bit surprise that they dont use the same springs. I would have preferred they have have the lighter springs.

This discussion makes the switch sound interesting.

Right now, it seems like it is a Gateron Brown with 10 cf heavier actuation. I don’t know if it uses a new stem.

I always felt that Gateron Browns were a little too light, and could use a more definite bump, so this could be an improvement.

But 55 cf activation is a bit much. I had a keyboard with Ergo Clears where the spring actuated at 60, and it was a bit overdone. Maybe the 55 figure here refers to the total tactile force, including stem.

Anyway, I’ll try to pick some up. Right now, though, it sounds almost as if they are configured like TTC Gold Brown V2/3, which to me just feel like punchier Browns with gratuitous extra weight - it’s hard to make a ‘better Brown.’

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I thought I was a heavy typist and in early days I typed on 78g zealios. But after using topre 45g for a while, my preference changed to ligher weight and weaker tactility.

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The entire CAP series uses new stem molds (it’s the thing about the series) but idk how different the bump itself is

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I just received a bag of 110 CAP Milky Brown, and a few samples of CAP Golden Brown.

My expectations were that Milky Brown would be better. But so far, I am more impressed by Golden Brown.

(maybe my Golden Brown samples are hand-lubed).

The Milky Brown are completely stock, and came in a bag of 110.

They are indeed intermediate between Cherry Brown and Ergo Clear in tactility. Like @kelvin0113 said, the stem is smoother and the bump is more pronounced than Cherry.

So it’s a larger, but less gritty bump. More forceful, cleaner.

It’s an interesting experience, and laypeople like it. I have been gravitating towards less-tactile Browns, near-linear really, so I’m not sure if it’s the direction I’d want to go in.

The Gateron CAP Golden Browns really impressed me. I’m just using some crap Tai Hao keycaps on there, but it feels great. The samples I’m using feel a little more oily and less-waxy than the Milky Browns, feel a little less intense in tactility.

I could easily use a board full of these particular CAP Golden Browns. Probably good on a plateless / PCB-mount like the NCR-80 / JER A06, the old Cherry plateless boards.

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Some Clarification:

I was talking with someone new to the CAP Browns who was rebuilding some of the Golden Browns as lubed samples.

He said the stock CAP Golden Browns are:

well-lubed
smooth
decent, rounded tactility
horrible leaf ping

He thought about just giving the leaf-area another coat of lube to address the horrible leaf ping.

Here’s what he said about the Milky Browns:

-about as smooth as stock Golden Brown
-sound more “lubed” as in hand-lubed with 3204 etc…
-not scratchy

He also said not to film any of them. It makes them sound worse.

These new CAP housings don’t have much wobble anyways.

I concur with his assessment.

He also said that CAPs wobble more when mounted directly to a PCB. But ‘not a deal-breaker.’

In my post, above, I was unfairly comparing stock CAP Milky Browns to lubed CAP Golden Browns. The lubed examples are fantastic in feel, although they still have remnants of that leaf noise.

Nevertheless, at this point, I would prefer to type on lubed CAP Golden Browns above most other light tactiles.

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Fascinating typing finding. Don’t meant to spam the board, but interesting comparisons here.

I have a board with N-facing LEDs [RAKK Lam Ang Pro], so I only use tall keycaps on it.

I was testing the CAP Milky Brown with some ABS MT3 keycaps. Turns out it feels and performs very close to some 65 G [14mm] TX Ergo Clears on that same board. These Ergo Clears were carefully lubed with 205g0 to improve sound and operation, without compromising tactility. Filmed with TX films.

The CAP Milky Brown are the closest switches on there to these 65 G Ergo Clears. The overall force used and kinetic impulse is similar.

The main differences are that the Cherry Ergo Clears have a more subtle pre-travel, in which you can gently depress the switch to a greater degree before ramping up, and also that the Cherry switch has a more plasticy Cherry sound, especially with the films, whereas the Milky Browns are cleaner-sounding and a little lower-pitched.

The travel of the Milky Browns is a little more rapid, so I find it bottoming-out a little more harshly. The 205g0 allieviates that somewhat in the Ergo Clears.

I personally enjoy typing on the 65 G Ergo Clears as they were built really well, but they are hard to get this way [the right films, careful use of 205g0, etc…] whereas Milky Browns are close out-of-box. I could almost populate the whole board with Milky Browns and have a nice MT3 board ready-to-go, but it bothers me knowing the 65 G TX are just a little better…

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I’ve had a similar experience with thin keycaps and mild tactiles - it might have been one of the first things about keebs I learned on my own through experience. As far as I can tell, all other factors equal as they can be, lighter caps will translate more intensity and detail of the switch feel, whereas heavier caps will round it all out a bit. Lighter caps also make a switch feel heavier, and visa-versa - at least in terms of how much force it takes to push them down.

I say this a lot, but - this can be good or bad, depending on your goals. Heavy caps might do just that little bit more to smooth-out the feel a switch that’s almost there. On the other hand, light caps can translate more detail and clarity when it comes to tactility.

I have a Filco with Cherry Browns, and I remember loving the feel of the stock caps on those switches. I also remember being surprised by how different the same board felt with SP SA caps on it. The switches were now a bit too easy to actuate, and the mild tactile feedback was absolutely eclipsed by the thunk of bottoming-out.

( Perhaps the first of many early glimpses into just how impossibly deep the rabbithole is. )

The basic Filco caps have top pad-printed legends, which I’m really not into - but I think the caps themselves can make a fine compliment to any number of more subtle switches. It looks like they do sell blank or maybe even the front-printed “ninja” versions of these caps, though so far I’ve only seen them in Japanese markets. Fun fact! Stock Filco caps look solid black, but are actually translucent and really thin; light will shine right through them.

Say all of that to say; a set of good ol’ Tai-Hao caps is a great thing to keep around if you like a little more detail from your CAP Browns, Pewters, et cetera.

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Yes, absolutely. It was one of the very first things I learned through experience, as well.

Keycaps definitely impact switch-feel, and there are some combinations that are better than others. There is no “one true keycap.” Even the most sub-mediocre keycaps can be useful. Barely-straight thick Chinese PBT is often the best keycap for silent switches and Niz domes alike.

Browns hate thick PBT most of the time, although ePBT isn’t so bad. Browns like thick [super-thick] ABS and thin PBT, needs to be esp. thin if it’s double-shot.

I’ve stopped recommending meetups as a priority for newbies, because you aren’t likely to learn this through cursory examination at a meetup. You’ve got to test it on your own keyboards.

As you said, it depends on your goals, another reason why there is no “one true keycap.”

I use SA-like profiles to dull switches that are too heavy with Cherry. MT3 is on my Ergo Clears, U4T, T1, and Holy Boba, and MG profile on RARA stems.

Good point about the stock Filco caps. I’ve got them filed deeply away, but they would be good on some light tactile TKL or something. Even an Aurora, if ran tactiles.

I expressly bought Tai Hao with the intent of using them on my ART BOX Brown board.

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Here’s a force curve:

https://github.com/bluepylons/Open-Switch-Curve-Meter/raw/main/Force%20curves/Okay-I’m-Just-Going-to-Calibrate-Every-Day-Now/Gateron-Cap-Brown.png?raw=true

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Interesting graph there.

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Hm. Interesting. Happened to see these while shopping for some PTFE tape.

They also have “longboi” springs, JWICK switches, and a few other CAP variants - and a fairly interesting “dry” stab-modding guide.

Not sure I’ll be following it exactly but after fighting with OA stabs on a silent board for two straight weekends I’m inclined to try at least some of it - namely wrapping the bars with thread sealing tape. In their guide, they have it around the clip area, which I think will do wonders for the OAs, and other guides I’ve seen show it on the ends to reduce ticking. Definitely going to try both of those.

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Dry "H.U.M.P"ing your stabs… :man_facepalming:

That is a nice guide though. I have been meaning to try the plumbers tape thing, nice to have a visual.

Thanks for the share.

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Of course these would come out as I’m about to receive some lightly-lubed CAP Golden Browns. And they’re OOS.

But they look really interesting, and I’ll try to pick up at least some samples. Gateron’s been going in the right direction on these switches so far.

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I am interested in the CAP crystal yellow. So these have the same CAP switch design but use ink switches’ housing material? They may sound more muted like ink?

Not that I’m trying to rep an HK Gaming partner, but I happened to notice this Durgod preorder keeb’s only switch options are all CAP Crystals:

It also looks like it wants to be mistaken for a Ducky One. :stuck_out_tongue: Not bad looking in its own right, though. I always thought Durgod had pretty great quality for the price, at least before the wave of really good middle-market keebs came along - but yeah - HK Gaming. Anyway - looks like CAP Crystals are starting to peek over the horizon.

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So now we know where all the CAP Crystals went :grin:

I’d be interested to know if they are any different from CAP Milky or Golden Brown.

I just finally installed CAP Golden Browns [leafs lubed with 3204] on my MK870 with polycarb plate. Gonna see how it types.

Zealio V1 is maybe slightly more tactile than CAP Brown, Zealio has a sharper bump IMHO, and CAP Brown is more ‘brown-like’ obviously, which means rounder and shallower.

CAP Brown really is half-way to an Ergo Clear, it’s more tactile than worn-in MX Browns. Zealio V1 really is an Ergo Clear, though. Wonder how CAP Crystal is.

Also, something called a Gateron Phantom Brown:

What do you think about the sound of Cap Milky Browns? I like how they feel, but I’m really disappointed with various extra sounds they produce, which can be characterized as occasional crunches, squeaks and metallic-sounding scratches. Lubing the springs does not make any difference, this must be the leaves that produce these sounds.

I own 105 switches and I installed 87 of them into a hotswap keyboard. I’m replacing the worst offenders with the remaining 18, but I think I may run of spare switches because many switches produce these sounds.

I also have to mention that they are lubed using thin oil, which is on both inside and sometimes on outside surfaces of the switches, and I have to wash my hands after any interaction with these switches.

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Once again, your description of aural characteristics is spot-on. Unfortunately.

I bought some CAP Milky Brown because I know a luber who was impressed by them [compared with other stock Browns], particularly the sound characteristics.

But there are flies in the ointment.

Yes, they are arguably better-sounding than stock switches such as MX Brown: CAP Milky Brown has far less of the scratch and sand.

But it does come with a generic ‘lubed’ sound, the kind you get if you haphazardly lube your Browns to get rid of the bad stock sound. It’s considered ‘better’ than stock unlubed sound, but there’s nothing special about it.

And that’s not even the bad part. As you say, they crunch and squeak. There’s a predicable sound on some keys where I know exactly where it’s going to shuffle on the [somewhat sluggish] upstroke. So I know exactly what you are talking about.

It’s not that they are bad sounding. It’s that they are mediocre. They’re better than the latest sandy Hyperglide Browns, but they still produce “extra” noises. I have a Rakk Lam Ang Pro full of them for testing, with MT3 keycaps for improved sound, but it still produces these annoyances.

Which means that they are basically inferior to hand-lubed light-tactiles. I guess it demonstrates that you just can’t buy that ‘hand-lubed’ quality at this price-point yet.

The lube is another issue because, although I prefer thin oils for most light-tactiles, the design of the switch is to drown the thing in oil [I guess for ease of automated production], and CAP has been known to leak oil. I’ve found traces of oil when swapping these switches. V2 is supposedly less of an offender than V1 in this regard, but still an issue. I suspect that automated manufacturing processes are key to the flaws/strengths/design of this switch.

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