Different click bar for sure - not as strong as a regular Jade.
Why? Why not call it “silent white?” if it is barely tactile? Another massive oversight from Kailh.
Did you try using a lighter spring? Perhaps a spring from BOX Whites or Jades?
The muted Jades are Kailh’s second most heavy clicky switch after the navies, heavier spring can make a weak clickbar feel even lighter.
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I haven’t gotten into swapping springs or making frenkenswitches yet.
Yes! This question popped into my mind: if they wanted these switches to be Jades, why didn’t they go with a lighter spring? Why not try to keep the force curve closer to the Jade switches they were being named after? Or if they couldn’t change the spring, why not call them Mute Navy instead?
Honestly, a this point it almost feels like the only reason for the Jade name on these switches is trade on the popularity of actual Jade switches.
Honestly I think this is accurate; that they chose to call these Mute Jades to draw upon the Jade’s reputation. I’m not sure who made that decision, but I don’t think they realized the expectation that would set for these.
From a certain perspective, the name is accurate if “mute” refers to the entirety of the switch, not just the sound - but I think the most natural customer expectation there is to think “like a Jade, but not as loud” - which is to say, very tactile - specifically, with a peak tactile force higher than the bottom-out weight of the spring. That’s what makes Jades stand-out from almost every other click-bar switch Kailh makes - and that definitive quality does not translate to the muted grey-stemmed switch.
I can see where you are going with this… Not certain that I agree. I don’t really have the impression that the rest of the travel is any quieter than that of a normal box switch. But I haven’t listened that closely to the full travel.
I think the important part (from a customer expectation pov) is the very tactile event. I’m not certain that too many customers are going to worry about the bottom-out force, as long as it is reasonable. But 82g for a bottom out is quite unreasonable when compared to a standard Box Jade, IMO.
After typing on them for a few hours I started to get finger fatigue - that’s what lead me to looking at the force curve again. I’ve only had finger fatigue from one other switch (so far - I’m sure I’ll find others eventually): Cherry MX Blacks. So, seeing that bottom out force tells me that the force required is what caused the issue.
Hey! There’s a new name for these switches: Mute Black-n-Brown’s! 
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You got me in the mood for some shenanigans. I put the Mute Jade’s click bar in a Deep Sea bottom housing. I’ll keep you posted.
Pardon the grosserino dust; here’s a quick look comparing a Midnight Jade and Mute Jade click bar:
The kinked one is the Mute Jade bar.
Note also the different angle of the “hammer” bend at the end.
Resuming shenanigannery
I installed a Midnight Jade click bar into the Deep Sea bottom housing, put in a Midnight Jade spring, and then put the Mute Jade stem and top housing on those. (I also shaved a bit of material from the back of the stem’s contact ramp, like can be seen on the Deep Sea stem - otherwise that ramp has some weird interaction with the bottom dampener.) It’s nearly as loud as a regular Midnight Jade despite the dampeners - trying one more thing for the heck of it after this.
Alright last update for tonight:
I wrapped the Midnight Jade click bar in PTFE tape. It’s a bit messy, but this is just a proof-of-concept.
Complete with realistic background noise, here’s a comparison between the Midnight Jade and Muted-er Jade:
It kinda works.
Worth the effort? Likely not - but an industrial approach to this could potentially bear fruit.
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The PTFE tape mod on the Jade is exactly what I was expecting with Mute Jades. Same clickbar and overall same tactility, with a dampened sound. I agree that it’s likely not worth the effort to do this mod for a full board; I’d rather just experience the standard Jades in all their ear-splitting glory and just switch to some non-clicky tactile or even silenced tactile when I need something quieter.
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totally unrelated to the topic but, what boards are those?
That’s a mode I hadn’t heard of for the Jades, and it sounds like what I was hoping for too. Do you have a link to a reference?
I would do this, but as I was about to post, I haven’t found a tactile switch that I like… Well, that may not be the case anymore, I read the description of a switch that sounds like what I am looking for, but it’s pricey. I was going to post (either in another thread, or a new topic) looking for recommendations of something similar but less expensive.
This is the Feker Dopokey, 2020 Edition. It’s a cast aluminum case, top-mount, steel plate, north LEDs, hot-swappable keyboard. It appears to have borrowed heavily from a keyboard called the Canoe that came out in 2018 or 2019. I’ve been searching long and hard for keyboards with this style of 71-key layout (I’ve found 8 or 9 now), and this is the only one that has an aluminum case. I found it on Banggood: Feker 70% Keyboard.
EDIT: I should add, I have found one glaring issue with this keyboard: the screws. For some reason they really cheaped out on the screws in these keyboards, and it’s kind of stopped me from taking mine apart to add sound-dampening. The problem is: the heads of these screws are so soft that It’s easy to strip them. And once stripped, I don’t know if it’s possible to tap them - they might be too tiny. Which would leave drilling them out and installing new screw sockets - something that I’m not that good with.
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Just the experiment I tried there in the photo / video; Namely taking some PTFE thread tape (like you might buy when installing a new shower head) and wrapping a few layers on the click bar.
To make the switch like I have it in the video is something of a pain but could be a template for Kailh to consider;
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Deep Sea bottom; has silicone dampening on the “floor”
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Muted Jade top with its little dampener
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Muted Jade stem with the back portion of the stem’s contact-leg shaved down, like the Deep Sea stem*
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Click bar from regular, Crystal, or Midnight Jade installed into Deep Sea bottom with PTFE tape around the end
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Regular / Crystal / Midnight Jade spring
*quick and dirty photo of the stem after using flush cutters to nibble the back of the leg (so it slots-in the Deep Sea dampener):
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Yeah, that’s a very extensive process… Definitely something that would be difficult to make 71 (much less 86 or 104) of by hand. You should work for NovelKeys or Kaihl. 
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I’m either less picky about tactiles than I am with clickies or I’ve had pretty good luck finding tactiles I like. Current favorite is still Boba U4T, but I’ve been happy with Harimau, Box Kangaroos, and Zilent v2 as well. Pewters are a nice, soft tactile if you’re looking for something lighter.
I think you look for something different in tactiles than you look for in clickies. I looked up each of those tactiles, and I can tell that I wouldn’t want to use any of them. 
It’s not that they are good for what they were designed to be as a switch, it’s that they don’t fit the way I want a switch to work… I guess I am just very different.
Of course, that’s been one of my personality traits for a long time… It’s why I use these 71-key keyboards, with this specific layout… They fit exactly what I need in a keyboard, where many others fail.
Unless pressed very slowly, they feel very similar to Box Royal switched. Pressed slowly, you can feel the click bar activate and then prepared to be confused due to the lack of audible click.
They do seem to have some similar characteristics… But, IIRC, the tactile event of the Box Royals is at the start of the travel, instead of in the middle like the Muted Jades. And the bottom out force is is quite a bit different – 12g to be precise (Mute Jades being 82g vs Box Royal’s 70g).
Confusion? What confusion??
I’m used to springs that bottom out at 140g, the difference between 70 and 82g is miniscule to me. 
Yeah, I tried some Cherry MX Black switches, and realized that wasn’t for me. 140g and my fingers would probably fall off…
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Mostly, the switches I like have heavy-ish weights 65-75g with very little pre-travel. Not really a fan of linear at all. I was pretty surprised how much I enjoyed Box Jades; the clickbar snap is like popping bubble wrap with every keystroke.
What kind of switches are you after?
Edit: nevermind, just saw your other post. 
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