Ugh. I’m sorry bud. This might be a bad sign. IMO, this is more or less a quintessential part of what’s enjoyable about the hobby.
Don’t disparage though. You might consider picking up a pretuned one on the aftermarket. There might be a slight cost premium, but you’ll get that plug-and-play experience.
“Most not-low-profile switches will be louder and have a longer key travel compared to the low-pros.”
There was the assumption that sent this down the drain…
I assumed, based on my shallow findings, that gateron clears would be lighter an silent.
And they are.
By themlselves or on a 3dprinted “stand” (a bit of the smaller form factor case I’m building), they are smooth, silent, pingy ringy when you let them return to their endstop.
But I would assume there is more to a noise than the switch itself.
I cannot feel resonance in the plate but my feeling is worth nothing.
What I feel is more the lower stop that turns the whole thing into a bell.
The chocs, or the gateron browns (copies most probably) I have do have, let’s say, a softer landing when bottomed out.
So maybe o rings would be a solution. Or lube (I have sort of a feel the noise I don’t like is the spring ringing when botomed out, amplified by the -abs, alas- keycaps).
I could also be completely wrong ( I usually am), but I learned to type on a mechanical typewriter (I’m THAT old) I may be a tad heavy.
I will investigate the choices you kindly recommended, and search a bit short travel switches.
I probably use the word wrong, but maybe the effect I’m after is something I sort of understood as being called “thocc”. The cheap kail red choc keys on the sharkoon bottom with a “thud”, the gateron clear on the gmmk go “clack”, if that makes any sense.
So I’ll probably try band aids, lubing and clippping stabs, lubing current switches.
(any recommendation for an off the amazon shelf lubing kit ? Like the crab like thingy to open those tiny plastic housings withhout shattering them ?)
Many thanks to all of you (really)
Another one I forgot to mention is Silent Box Pinks; they have a bit shorter travel and are dampened - they have a bit softer-feeling bottom out compared to standard, but not as soft as the Bobagum. They’re also pretty quiet.
Plate and case materials definitely factor-in to the overall sound, though less so when using dampened switches just because they throw less vibrations around.
“Thock” entered the community lexicon as an onomatopoeia of Topre switches; basically well-made and more nuanced rubber domes. The “th” part is the sort of brushing sound of the sliders descending, and the “ock” is the domes collapsing under the sliders. There is a somewhat muted quality to this sound thanks to the silicone domes.
These days “thock” is used to describe just about any loud switch, mostly tactiles - it’s thrown around like crazy and I’d sooner use other words to describe most of the switches in question - words like “clack”. There’s a sort of clack–thock spectrum people use to talk about how deep the sound is, with “clack” being at the high pitched end and “thock” being at the low pitched end. Honestly very few MX-compatible switches make the “thock” sound to my ears, but it can be a useful word to describe deeper clacks. The one MX-compatible switch I can think of that actually “thocks” in the traditional sense of sounding like Topre is the Boba U4, thanks to its big bump and silicone dampeners - but it’s really more of a gentle “thud”.
So - if deep but not necessarily loud clacks is what you’re after, something like a lubed long-pole would be a good place to start looking, and I’d include some dampened (“silent”) switches in your search as well such as the Silent Boxes and Gazzew silents.
I’m not too familiar with lube kits that have all the goodies but I know there are some out there. Basic small brushes, tweezers and the like will do the trick - you’ll just want some decent lube, preferably something like Krytox GPL, though there are some other good ones too. I would recommend the more simple style of switch opener, usually has two sides magnetized together, or two capped ends facing apart for the two common types of switch shapes.
I can’t attest to the sound aspect, but as far as switches that might feel similar to kailh choc reds (at least as far as actuation distance) it might be worth looking at “speed” switches.
Maybe lubing switches would be a good idea, also not to mention to put some foam in the case. My board literally has Amazon packing foam and it sounds a lot better than stock.
With the lube, although I haven’t tried some yet, getting some Krytox would be well worth it other than some generic grease. My keyboard right now doesn’t sound the best it could if it were with proper Krytox 205g0. (Dang it, G-Lube… You fooled me)
(any recommendation for an off the amazon shelf lubing kit ? Like the crab like thingy to open those tiny plastic housings withhout shattering them ?)
I don’t believe Amazon really has any lubing kits, if you want tools and lube, you probably have to purchase them from keyboard related vendors. I linked a post in this forum that includes a large number of vendors all over the world, you can see which vendor is closest and most convenient for you!
Many thanks for the links ! I’ll have a go at the list
Don’t be sorry, I have many a hobby that have a disassembly/assembly phase !
I think conveying sound with words is going to be challenging, and I probably do not have a precise enough grasp on wording.
I’ll try to attach sound clips of the 75 € sharkoon red choc and the 200€ qmmk gateron clear
(Many many thanks for your enlightening comments !)
Definitely; it’s very context-driven, and everyone’s is a little different. Some recordings and maybe a link or two to examples of sound you like from keeb videos will help narrow things down.
So first the recordings (with a smartphone, so a bit brighter than what it sounds)
The 75 euros sharkoon - kailh red choc : https://www.mboxdrive.com/sharkoon.mp3
The 200 euros gmmk with gateron clears (linear) : : https://www.mboxdrive.com/gmmk.mp3
I’m not too concerned about the stab rattle, that can be cured.
I’m hitting keys with a bit of wrath but not that much than usual use. The choc bottoms with a thud, and the gateron clear, well, if they are the only culprit in this, they bottom like something thin / flimsy.
This is a better recorded sound of the sharkoon (with someone that doesn’t hit keys with all the hate) Best budget keyboard? - Sharkoon PureWriter RGB Review - YouTube
I find this tone very satisfying (again, the sharkoon purewriter was “let’s find if I like it after a decade of A1048” and I enjoyed it, but I knew it was built to cost, and lacked a bit of rigidity when pushed, that’s why I went for something that more substantial)
Now for the reference videos
This I like a lot : enjoying my silent mechanical keyboard - YouTube
And this : How to build a whisper quiet mechanical keyboard (modded GMMK + Aqua Zilents + Matrix Keycaps) - YouTube would be pretty good.
Funnily enough the video is probably the recipe for what I aim for, It’s a shame I didn’t find it previously (I used the wrong keywords…)
The operator has also a significant part in the sound output, maybe lightly springed switches were a bad idea for my ham fisted ways.
Would o rings (that I understand as after-the-fact soft bump stops) be a suitable solution ? Or more a band aid on a broken leg ?
Super helpful examples! This definitely narrows-down some categories and materials.
The Gateron Clears: Short answer, yes they are the culprit. It sounds to me like these are polycarb-housing versions, which are nice and rattly from the factory. The “outboard” design of the GMMK isn’t a bad thing on its own, but also does nothing to mask noisy switches. All that said, it’s totally possible to tune-out all that clinky chattery rattle with lube and films on those same switches. I’m not sure if they’ll ever sound like what you’re going for, though - lube will help deepen the sound but only so much.
The Chocs: I’m not sure what exactly gives them the sound they have as I’ve never actually seen or used them, but I get what you mean now, especially in context of the other recordings.
Reference recordings: These really help me narrow it down. For the most part, I think you’ll want to look at dampened / silent switches - and if you don’t mind putting in the effort, I think you’ll want to lube them, and where needed, film them.
O-rings: Maybe? I really didn’t like them myself, but they might be a good option if you do like reduced travel, as they will give more of that softened thud - only on the way down, though. I’d generally put these in the band aid realm.
To see if switches need films, I pop a handful into a hotswap and put some thin caps on them. Especially with silent switches and with switches that have otherwise been lubed, rattle will indicate a loose housing, with which films and gaskets help tremendously.
The recording you liked a lot is of a JWK silent linear, and while that particular edition is hard to find, very similar switches are readily available. I think the general family of switches you’ll want to orbit are MX-compatible silent linears with the possible inclusion of Topre - I think you were using the “classical” definition of “thock” all along.
If you’re open to tactiles (which Topre are by nature), they tend to have a more loud, layered thock compared to linears of the same weight. The Zilents in IO Sam’s video are an example of a silent tactile - expensive but generally loved. Lately it’s been nudged out of the silent tactile spotlight by the Boba U4, which has a stronger, wider bump - it’s really tactile so it may or may not be enjoyable. They are a fairly decent facsimile of Topre, inasmuch as is possible with a completely different mechanism.
I’d also gather from these preferences that long-pole switches probably aren’t the best with some very contextual exceptions involving other parts and specific housings.
So - a few specific recommendations:
Boba U4s: These might be a good option if you have that kind of sound as a priority, don’t mind a pretty strong tactility, and don’t want to fiddle with tuning your switches - they do have a nice thocky/thud sound from the get-go. That tactility might take some getting used-to, but can be great for fast typing once you do.
Gateron Silent Blacks: Relatively inexpensive and also having a great, if grainy sound right from the bag. A little tuning with lube will bring the sound a little closer to the Serikos from that recording. I really do love the sound of these; here is a recording of some stock ones mounted in a GMMK fullsize.
Durock Dolphins & Daybreaks: A relative of the Seriko switches in the recording you liked, these have a different colored housing and stem and use a different spring, but the shaping of the plastic components is the same and they use the same type of dampener for the sound signature. The two names just refer to two different spring weights.
Gateron Silent Inks & Ink frankens: While I think these feel more smooth than the “vanilla” silent blacks, I also don’t think they sound as great, especially before tuning. – That said, Ink housings are among the few I think you might like with long-pole stems because of the deep sound they make, especially when paired with something like a polycarb plate. It is louder and sharper than the recorded examples but it does have a deep if sharp “thocky” quality.
Niz Electrocapacitive: These aren’t MX-derived switches at all aside from having the same keycap mount, these have more in common with Topre switches, being electrocapacitive rubber domes. They don’t sound, feel, or work the same, but they do have more in common with each-other than with most other things available. These are tactile and “thocky” - they fit MX keycaps but otherwise don’t share any parts or conventions with the MX-compatible universe. They have their own tuning methods and are pretty much their own thing; you can’t swap them into any old keeb, for example - so these aren’t a recommendation for your GMMK so much as a potential, less expensive consideration down the road alongside Topre.
There are quite a few other switches that might give you the kind of sound and feel you’re looking for, but I think these are great places to start your search. Let me know if you have any questions about these or anything else!
PS; this is a really old post, but you might get something out of the other recordings posted there: Informal Silent Switch Comparison
Not necessarily.
I hate the process of lubing my switches (the stabs not so much as you have tens or hundreds of switches per build and only a handful of stabs), but I love having a finished board done to my liking, knowing that I built it myself.
Hating the process doesn’t stop me from making new builds. I want to go through the process as I know it’s necessary (necessary in terms of getting it the way you want it) and I love the end result.
I love the soldering part though, but I enjoy soldering in general.
I’ll delve into these a smidge later. Many, many thanks @Deadeye !
(Thing is, I’ll be left with a hundred of switches, that sounds like an invitation to build a 75%ish thingy with a leftover arduino a a bit of filament…)
Pretty much my standpoint, you get bored on the fourth conrod, let alone the hundredth switch !
Just popping in to say that TTC Bluish Whites are a ‘half-silenced’ tactile, and the closest an MX switch has come to feeling like topre for me. Definitely worth checking them out for science. My only real grip is they’re 3-pin.
Description: TTC Bluish Whites are a unique tactile switch featuring a double coil long spring, mute bottom, and dust proof stem. The double coil spring allows for a very satisfying, snappy typing experience. While the silicone dampener located in the stem pole cavity helps reduce the bottom-out noise. The dust proof stem assures performance won’t be hindered with extended use and dust accumulation.
I generally find typing tests to be useless, but I know that’s not consistent with the hobby, so here’s a typing test with them.
I love TTC Bluish Whites! Great suggestion.
They introduced me to those two-stage long springs, too.
I think sound tests have the most utility when used in comparing things in like-for-like conditions, which is exactly what’s going on in that video. Very cool idea to compare across many profiles - and I love the info graphics!
Fair point - I may be a little hard on sound tests. My distaste originates from hearing people say they’re chasing a sound from a sound test they heard online. By the time you record, tune, compress, and playback, it’s kind of the equivalent of keyboard ASMR, and will never sound just like that in real life.
Given the context of this sound test, I think there is value added, and I agree, I really enjoyed that videos format.
Pretty much spoiled for choice.
It’ll probably come down to availability (I’ll probably go for something that I can get without too much fuss), ideally 3 pins, and aesthetics.
Like something with a darker shade of case will blend better with the (black) gmmk, whereas the (current) clear housing is very visible under bottom row keycaps.
Inks look to blend in a tad better
An innocent and naive question: cherry mx silent have a black housing (bonus point for being the right color and 3 pins), would there be a reason to prefer gaterons black ink over these ?
(I don’t mind that much cutting 200+ little legs with flush cutters)
At least for me, YES. Ink Blacks are quite a bit more smooth than Cherry silents. The stock Cherry ones feel like poking a stick into wet sand for me. That said, the Cherry stems work well in other housings that are less grainy.
It’s possible to swap the Ink tops with solid black ones from other switches, but you might sacrifice a little smoothness depending on the donor.
So at the time being, based mainly on availability (that is challenging in this day and age), it’s a duel between the durock daybreak and the gaterons silent inks.
Both are pins and will need clipping, I hope that won’t interefere too much with the rgb smd leds on the pcb
I’ve seen a thing or two regarding scratchy silent ink v2, but would put me off is inconsistency (non capable production process)
I’ll get a switch opener and krytox gpl (turbo zsmax RR special edition) in the same shop hopefully.
(I’ll print a switch opener instead)
[edit : this one works quite well : Cherry MX Switch Opener by Avatar7 - Thingiverse
(not my picture) ]
If you are already spending so much money on premium switches (ink, silent inks, etc), I would consider selling the GMMK full size and get a keyboard that supports 5 pins rather than clipping those legs. 5 pins switches are generally more welcomed because the two extra legs give more stability.
Wooohooo, I’m premium !
Well well.
I don’t want to sell the gmmk because I’m stubborn. But there’s more to it.
I genuinely thought that was the best full size ISO layout available on the market. I’m probably wrong (I’m very good at being wrong). I’d love to fit 3 pins switches, but they make em’ five legged.
I searched quite a bit for a ‘quality’ keyboard that would allow adaptation to some extent, and iso layout. Or even the bits, but maybe I searched wrong, the world is littered with group buy 63.5% keyboards / pcb / plates / cases / whatever with as rich an offer regarding keycaps, but ANSI.
I also sort of desperately try to make a rather expensive kit (as in total cost) as satisfying (for me) as the cheap sharkoon. Double or quits ?
It’s probably an ill fated quest, but these make the best movies.
