Quiet alternative for the Dragonfruit

Learning and discussion Key switches
1

Hi!

I want to build an Iris keyboard and I am searching for a quiet light/medium tactile switch. I like the Dragonfruit switch because of it’s little tactile bumb and the light weight press. But it’s a bit loud, are there quiet alternatives with the same characteristics?

These are the ones I found so far (but I don’t know if they are quiet and have the same tactile):

  • Penguin
  • Zealio Redux
  • Naevy
  • Pewter
  • Taro ball

Or I could replace the stem by a silent T1 stem, but I would prefer a ready-made switch.

2

Since the iris is a board that doesn’t offer much in terms mass to absorb sound/vibration, you could either make the board quieter/deeper, depending on what you are willing to do/buy instead of getting new switches:

  1. Lube and film the switch (this makes the sound deeper)
  2. Make sure you are typing on a deskmat (this one is big)
  3. Add weight to the inside of the case (if you are using a case).

In terms of switches, there are very few options that I know of for medium tactile with silent stems.
Aliaz silent switches are the only ones that come to mind which I felt horrible to me personally, but might suit your needs. In terms of the switches you listed, it’s not really easy to assess their noise levels since they have different weights and the switches are made of different plastic blends.

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3

Are the Outemu [silent] sky discontinued? I wanted to recommend them as they’re basically silent Ergo Clears but I can’t find them for same anywhere.

Anyway, the Dragon Fruits iirc are Ergo Clear like switch, all of the switches you’ve mentioned are not silent switches, also the Pewters are MX Brown like switches.
You could try getting the U4s if you’re looking after silent top bump tactiles stems, should be much cheaper than the shrimps, though the U4 stems are rounder.

If you’re fine with Brown like silent switches there are the:

  • TTC silent browns - not much to say about them, smooth enough, brown bump.
  • Silent Gateron Browns - in my experience silent Gats are pretty bad, the silent yellow is pretty scratchy.
  • Outemu Silent gray - no experience with them, pretty cheap.

Maybe Gazzew still have individual silent stems to sell, I’d try contacting him.

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4

This is what I was going to suggest. Gazzew still sells them under the name “Silent Tactile” and the occasional vendor will have some. Popping those in a housing with a mild leaf might accomplish what you’re looking for.

The silent gray is linear; basically a different color Bobagum stem. Ultra quiet but a bit mushy.

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5

What Deadeye and Cloud983 said is it.

I have built numbers of OUTEMU Silent Sky. All you need are the stems. You put them in Cherry housings, or TTC Gold Brown V2, or Aliaz housings, Huano Banana, Boba, or even leftover Kailh Polia housings.

As said, the OUTEMU Silent Sky was explicitly designed to be a silent Ergo Clear, and the switch you are using, Dragonfruit, was also designed to mimic an Ergo Clear. So this is the closest that you will get.

OUTEMU Silent Sky stems were designed for 15-16mm 62 or 68 G springs, although you can get away with big 55 G springs and 14mm 60 G springs. Honestly, I think 14mm 62 G - 15mm 63.5 G is the ideal range for these, especially in Cherry housings.

These are easy to build. I only build a few switch types. You just take apart the switch you are putting them into, replacing the stem [and maybe spring] with the Silent Sky. You can lube with 3204, and pretty carelessly as well.

Two of the switches you mentioned, Penguin and Taro Ball, are all variants of Durock Medium Tactile, and so is Dragonfruit. So they are all recolours of Durock Medium Tactile, sometimes with a different spring.

Hence, going to any of those switches would be just as loud. Same as Zealio, Neavy, and Pewter. They are good switches, but are not silenced.

The OUTEMU Silent Sky was basically designed to be a kind of “Silent Naevy,” so that’s why you want it.

You also mentioned silent T1. Those are pretty decent, they come in several variants. But they are more tactile than the Dragonfruit. That’s why I recommend 62 G (14mm) OUTEMU Silent Sky, which should be similar in intensity to the Dragonfruit.

You can actually drop the Silent Sky stems right into the Dragonfruit housings [since I know that this is possible with the Penguin switches], but why ruin your Dragonfruit switches?

BTW it helps to have a board that muffles silent switches: I’ve found the Archon AK89 and some builds of the IKKI68 Aurora to do this. In fact, I have Silent Sky in my Aurora right now. (Incidentally, if Zeal ever made a Zilent V1 redux, that would be perfect for you.

You can buy the OUTEMU Silent Sky stems from Gazzew. They discontinued most of the other parts, but I was able to buy stems last year. I recommend trying them with the following springs: Spirit (regular linear stainless) 55, 62, 63.5 / TX [14mm] 60, 62, 65 for spacebar / OUTEMU 52 and 62. (52 G can be used in smooth, low-tactility housings).

Aliaz is much less-tactile than OUTEMU Silent Sky, believe me. Aliaz is basically a silent Gateron Brown, Silent Sky is a silent Ergo Clear. But Aliaz can make a good housing for Silent Sky: just lube the stem, use OUTEMU 52 G, maybe.

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6

I guess what I’m saying, and this is quickest and most authentic, is just buy Durock Medium Tactile [stock 63.5 G Durock spring] and put OUTEMU Silent Sky stems in them. That would be the fastest and most authentic way to have Silent Dragonfruit.

Gazzew internal documentation calls them “Silent Tactile” stem, which is different from U4 stem, so be sure to order the non-U4 “Silent Tactile” (Silent Sky).

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7

Thanks for all the comments! You have pointed me in the right direction.
I will get in contact with Gazzew for the OUTEMU Silent sky stems. Probably gonna test the following combinations. Maybe gonna try the U4 stem as well, but I guess it is a bit to much tactile bumb for what I want.

  • Durock medium tactile + OUTEMU Silent SKY
  • MX Clear + OUTEMU Silent SKY (found here: Best ergo clear style switch?)
  • Dragonfruit + OUTEMU Silent SKY

Which materials do muffle the switches? (Stainless steel, wood, FR4, Acrylic)? It would be great if Zeal would made the Zilent redux :slight_smile:

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8

You can order housings from Gazzew as well and I’d recommend using one of the Boba Linear housings to create a similar experience to the dragonfruit (I found the Boba Tactile housing to be a bit more tactile and that was not to my taste)…Linear bottom housing, silent tactile stem (what he calls the SIlent Sky stem), and top housings + spring of your choice (62g is closest to the 63.5 dragonfruit spring)

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9

Can confirm, these are a great option to consider as well.

I have a few ST stems and some housings laying around so I put together one of each with Bobagum and Dragonfruit housings. In the pink linear Boba, I have a Gateron Yellow (~62g bottom-out) spring, and the DF has its own.

The bump itself feels fairly similar between the two, and both are very quiet. Comparatively and without adding any lube, just throwing the stem in;

The Dragonfruit:

  • Has a more clean-feeling (and sounding) interaction with the leaf
  • Wobbles significantly more, especially at resting position
  • Has shorter travel due to a higher floor relative to the top

The linear Boba:

  • Isn’t really any louder, but has more noise in the sound and feel
  • Has significantly less wobble, especially at resting position
  • Is more or less full-travel; eyeballing it looks very close to 4mm

To some degree, leaf and spring noise can be tuned-out with lube and such - but there’s not really a remedy for loose fitment other than different parts. However… depending on priorities, another option would be to get a set of any given Gazzew top, and swap those along with the ST stems onto the Dragonfruits. (I think the pink ones look great for this) Purely in terms of maximizing cleanliness of the bump and reducing wobble, this is a best of both worlds situation.

The very real caveat here is this leaves the leaf partially un-secured; upward pressure on the pin can move the leaf. This means there is a very good chance of the leaf becoming displaced in the process of installing the switches into a hot-swap socket, or a particularly tight solder through-hole. With the latter, you can use some needle-nose pliers to gently pull the pin back down if it moves out of place. Simply put, if the leaf is displaced, the switch will feel “off”.

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10

Those combinations should work.

As far as muffling, foams seem to absorb sound, as well as the silicone that comes with some kits. The Archon AK89 and some factory boards come with simple foam [including some KBDFans kits], and that has an effect.

I don’t know a lot about building and dampening materials, though, so you might want to check with others.

You can find some hints by reading about the silicone in the Aurora assembly guide:

11

I didn’t have the best experience trying to turn the Boba linear housing into a light tactile, but I didn’t try very hard.

With U4T stem, the Boba linear housing just seemed … deader. The Boba housing leafs either have too little oomf, or too much.

But Cherry housings are pretty linear too, and Silent Sky works with them. So Boba linear should work. Maybe even with very light springs [otherwise, you will have to use heavier springs to generate the impression of resistance].

[Incidentally, if you use Silent Sky in the Boba tactile housing, you are supposed to use at least 68 G according to Gazzew, although I found 65 G 14mm TX to be okay]

12

Okay, so… I just put two Silent Tactile stems into Dragonfruit housings, but with OUTEMU white “Tight Tops.”

It definitely works, and produces a silenced switch. It’s higher-pitched and louder than putting the stems in TTC Gold Brown V2 and lubing with 3204, but it works.

@Deadeye, I think you just figured out how to “solve” the Dragonfruits. Using the Boba "tight-top."

I didn’t entirely like the Silent Tactile stem in Dragonfruit with Boba top, because it still felt and sounded kinda mushy. [Didn’t lube].

I replaced the Durock 63.5 G spring with a bag-lubed 60 G 14mm TX spring. It’s now a little ‘cleaner’ and still snappy. Sounds better, too.

So this new “Silent Sky Dragon” is a pretty clean silent light-tactile:
[Dragonfruit lower-housing, Boba “tight-top,” Silent Sky stem, lubed 60 G 14mm TX spring.]

But you also solved the Dragonfruit switch entirely.

I liked the feel of Dragonfruit, and the sound wasn’t too bad, but it wobbled like crazy.

With the Boba tight-top, the stock Dragonfruit wobbles less and sounds better. I put PBT MT3 on it, and now it’s something I’d want to type on.

I can envision a build with this: Dragonfruit Bobas in a stock MK870 with MT3 keycaps. Should be quick and easy, sound and type well.

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13

It’s interesting to hear these results because I found the Dragonfruit to be a less-than-ideal forum for a tactile switch, especially given the price point. I ended up swapping linear stems into mine as a result (which I’m far happier with, even as a tactile fan). If I were to go with an “ergo-clear-style” tactile from JWK, it’d be the Cerulean for the nylon housing. Penguins have been less wobbly than dragonfruits in my experience too.

But either way, I don’t think it’s worth the additional expense to throw gazzew stems/tops onto any of these unless you already have the switches and won’t use them otherwise - just too expensive for marginal gain and extra work. YMMV though! I quite like the silent sky tactility and would just stick with all gazzew parts to replicate that experience.

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14

Dragonfruit is less-than-ideal for a tactile switch because it was originally meant to be a linear, maybe even a progressive linear.

That’s probably why you are having better results turning it into a linear. The decision to turn it into a tactile was made late in the process. Not sure the Dragonfruit stem is truly happy in that housing.

Dragonfruit stem shape and spring weight is actually good. Pleasant to type on. But that parts don’t fit together that well, hence the wobble. And some report leaf noise. Good design, dubious build.

Penguins are definitely less-wobbly than Dragonfruit. Dragonfruit is the weakest of all the Durock Medium Tactile recolours, which is why it needs help. Cerulean is probably the best for the reason you mention: nylon material. My best DMTs are lubed and filmed Mode Signals, with 3203 and TX films. They are awesome on a polycarb plate, but good even on aluminum.

To help Dragonfruit, I favour the OUTEMU tight-tops now. They make the switch enjoyable to type on. I thought the factory lube was okay, but the factory wobble was holding it back for me. If the Mode Signals are any indication, the tight-top Dragonfruits would be good in a polycarb MK870.

I agree that it’s not the most cost-effective thing to put Silent Sky in Dragonfruit, but if the OP doesn’t like his Dragonfruits as-is, and wants to transform them, this will work. Otherwise, I recommend putting Silent Sky in Durock Medium Tactile or whatever the cheapest recolour is, as that will be cheap and easy, and doesn’t need OUTEMU tight-tops. Penguin is good, but needs hand-lube. OP might get away with no lubing with Dragonfruits, DMT.

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15

Just found out that the Outemu Silent Forest is almost identical to the Outemu Silent Sky. I own the Outemu Silent Forest, so I already tried the silent stem into the Dragonfruit. I really like it! I also tried to put the clear top from the Silent Forest on my Dragonfruit, but I enjoy typing with the Dragonfruit’s top more. Maybe I just like wobbly…? (If it is not too much).

For those who like tactility, the Dragonfruit’s stem into the Outemu Silent Forest is not bad either.

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16

Makes sense that Dragonfruit stem would be good in Silent Forest housing. It’s a tactile housing that’s meant to produce Ergo Clears, and Dragonfruit is supposed to be an Ergo-Clear-like stem.

The clear tops on Silent Sky / Silent Forest aren’t necessarily tight-tops, though. In fact, I think they were notoriously loose.

So I would test Dragonfruit with a proper tight-top if you get the chance.

17

Hi,

I have build 60 quiet dragon fruit switches with the following combination:

  • Dragonfruit housing and leaf
  • Gazzew purple top
  • 55g Durock spring

But I have inserted them into the keyboard and only two work. Could this be the leaf issue @Deadeye was talking about? Is it possible to fix this somehow?

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18

Seems likely; the Gazzew tops don’t hold the leaves down, so the sockets push them out of place.

One possible option would be to carefully install the bottom housings by themselves into the sockets, while manually keeping the leaf in-place. From there you can assemble the switch and the leaves should stay put.

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19

I could also go back to the original Dragonfruit tops and film them. Which film (thickness/brand) would work the best for the dragonfruit switch to reduce the wobbliness?

20

So far I’ve had the best luck with 0.2mm polycarb films in Dragonfruit housings; one example would be KeBo’s “thick” films:

There are two options on the page; the thicker of the two are 0.2mm. A handful of other brands also use that thickness.

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