A thought on Healios and a question about Ergo Clears

This is my first time posting here, I guess…

Picked this over Reddit or Geekhack to see how the interaction will be.


I received my TGR Alice this Monday and was very excited to build it some Helios that I got, I lubed them with 3204, all looks good, but then, after I build it, I got a bit disappointed with Helios. They are smooth and all and I surely don’t mind them in the alphas, but somehow the mods felt a bit weird to me…the mushiness was a deal breaker. Was a weird night, because in one hand I built the most amazing board I ever had(and truly, the Alice is magical) but in the other hand the switch didn’t satisfied me. But don’t get me wrong, it is an interesting switch, maybe if I built it in a different board, I just want my Alice to be perfect(I even sold my other boards, keeping just a Minivan for traveling). I must add that this was my first time both trying a silent switch and a zeal switch. I had an amazing experience with Retooled Blacks, they became my favorite switch, but one needs to experiment a bit.

I decided to desolder the Healios and replace it with some Tealios that I just ordered…but now I’m afraid about disappointment, don’t to desolder the Alice twice. Also, I never tried Vintager Blacks but heard amazing things about them…Tried to get some in mechmarket but gave up, inclined to go with the Tealios. Any thoughts?

The other topic, is still related of course, is Ergo Clears. The first board that I built(a Tada68) I built it with Cherry Clears, and immediately loved it, after a while I started noticing the scratchiness(Didn’t lube, never thought about lubing at the time), but after seeing Manofinterests’s live building a TGR Alice with Ergo Clears, I started thinking about them…The thing is, I found it online that the spring of Cherry Clear is 60g(some websites show it as 55g), and to make Ergos I need a lighter spring, what weight would you guys recommend? And do you recommend Ergo Clears at all? Whats the deal with Ergo Clears with BSUN housing?

Yep, I’m decided on the switches for my Alice yet…
And while I’m writing this with it, the Healios are feeling a bit better after a break in.

Thanks for reading.


Clear springs aren’t actually 55g bottom out, but they are that for actuation. A popular choice is any of the SPRiT/catweewee springs in the 60-67g range, as that’s the sweet spot for most typists. When it comes to BSUN housings, there’s certain housings that contain contact leaves that are stiffer, thicker, or otherwise differently shaped than the contact leaves in stock Cherry housings. I have my Halo stems in a BSUN-made housing - the YOK Red Pandas - and I think the change in tactility is absolutely fantastic.

As for the Alice, you mentioned that the mods felt mushy. Did you, by any chance, modify your stabilizers? Stock Cherry stabilizers tend to carry a mushy feeling with them, and it’s… divisive, to say the least. There’s lots of mods that people do on their stabilizers, like clipping, lubricating, band-aid modding, and those can drastically change the feeling of the stabs. Of course, mushy feeling is just par for the course with good ol’ silent switches, but that may be an impact on the modifiers.

As for the Tealio vs Vintage Black debate, well, the main thing comes down to sound. Some people absolutely adore the sound that Vintage Blacks provide, whereas others are just happy with the sound of Zealio housings. Especially if you have the V2 Tealios, they’re pretty damn great and sound good themselves, and both feel quite similar unless you’re the kind of person to be swapping out top housings for the optimal balance of sound and wobble. Really, the most important factor in a switch is whether you like it or not, and if you think you’ll like Tealios, go for Tealios! Just try out what you like.

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Thanks so much for this reply. Was very clarifying. I understand that this hobby has a lot to do with finding rare stuff and somehow this can influence if you like the item or not. I might go with Tealios v2 since I already ordered them.
As for stabs, yeah, I clipped and lubed them, didn’t band-aid mod though. Its very weird because now I’m getting used to the Healios and they don’t feel as bad as the first time…I think I was expecting a lot from them.
I’d love to try more tactile switches, and I fond of experimentation, mixing up and stuff…I joined the Holy Pandas recent drop, can’t wait to try it too…and your Halo stems in BSUN housing sounds interesting AF!

from a sound perspective the tealio stems will be amazing in Panda housings.

Jesus! This sounds interesting! I’d like to focus on sound actually. I know it sounds weird coming from a guy that chose silent switches but humans have its contradictions.

Maybe try a dry test where you mount the switch you might want but don’t solder it. It won’t be the exact same feeling but might give you a better sense before you commit again.

I loved ergo clears when I had them in a board. Used 63g bottom out springs.

Also, welcome here and thanks for posting!

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omg! A great and simple idea that idk why didn’t think about. Thanks for replying! I’ll do this dry test for sure.
I wanna try try the ergo clears at some point, the clear stem in the Bsun housing sounds attractive too.

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Yup. Ergo Clear using Bsun housing was my favorite until Holy Panda came along and spoiled my fingers.

Nice! I joined the Holy Pandas drop, I intent to build a TKL with them. Looking forward for this.
But This Ergo Clear with BSUN housing attracts me very much!

Great to have you here :smiley:

Hmm I’d definitely say the ‘mushiness’ isn’t for everyone. I’m pretty similar where it took me a bit to warm up to them before I started liking them.

I’m a pretty big fan of lubed tealios, although many have differing opinions about the sounds of the switch. I think when lubed, they’re extremely smooth and have a fine sound. Overall a pretty good linear to choose imo. For Vintage blacks, they can definitely be an absolutely amazing switch. On the flip side, they can be pretty hit or miss. It’s not uncommon for some experienced builders to go through 200-300 vintage blacks to cherry pick the best switches to build up a TKL. Some of the best linear boards I’ve typed on have been vintage blacks, but not all of them.

Ergo clears! Definitely a solid choice for a tactile switch even in this day and age. Lubed Ergo clears make for a nice medium level middle bump tactile switch that is honestly quite accessible for many. It can have a pleasant sound and won’t be fatiguing after long typing sessions like some switches that are either too heavy (e.g. stock mx clears) or too tactile (like box royals or zealios v2s).
BSUN housings are pretty nice with ergo clears (BSUN Clears) and they do give a small bump to the tactility, although not as big of a bump as panda housings. Not a bad choice, but it starts getting pricey at cost per switch at that point unless you don’t mind those costs.

Hmm, to be honest, it can be pretty nerve wracking really thinking of what kind of switch you want to throw on a beauty like the Alice. I really love mine with Holy Pandas and wouldn’t have it any other way :slight_smile: There are so many different switch combos earlier like what @ODIN mentioned with the tealios/panda combo. Those sound pretty nice.

I’d highly recommend going with @cijanzen’s reccomendation and dry mount different options. Mount ALL of the typing section switches so you can actually type like you would on a built keyboard. That’s a wonderful way to think about what kind of switches you want to put on. Sure it can be time consuming, but it sure beats having to desolder a PCB again and again haha.

Let us know what you end up with, the Alice is one of my favorite boards :slight_smile:


There’s never really been a better time than now to explore wacky frankentactiles! You can try lots of different options, there’s great housings ranging from the BSUN variants (Panda/GSUS/YOK), the new kid on the block Zeal V2, and of course, the old favorite of Retooled Cherry black housings!

Thanks so much for replying, Huey. And thanks for having me.
I hope I didn’t sound like I was bashing the switch, I can see how Healios can be special, Its just not for me, I guess. I mean, I’m typing on them all week and I feel that they get better and better with time…
I’ll definitely will do the dry test after desoldering, I think when building a board like Alice, it’s nice to take the time to do things the best way possible for your personal taste. Will do the test will Tealios v2 vs some Vintage Blacks that I ended up purchasing today on merchmarket…the vints are already lubed with 3204, have 62,5g springs and they also have films…I never typed on any filmed switches, so I don’t know if will be good or not, you guys like films? Anyway, let see which will win.

And yes, it’s exciting and stressful at the same time, choosing switches for a board like Alice, sometimes I think that I’m overlooking or being too perfectionist, because in the end it’s “just” a keyboard but we all here know that actually it’s not that simple. But I think the thrill is what make things interesting!

Will reply again letting you know the winner!

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Yes! I feel like I wanna try them all. I even placed a Cherry Black stem in the Healios housing to see how it goes, I can’t have an opinion because I didn’t build anything, was just a quick uncompromised thing…


Oh, yeah, silents are totally not for everyone. I love the moosh on my Cherry Silents, which are infamously soft. For people who are more used to the firm bottom out of regular mechanical switches, it can really throw you for a loop. But, as I tried them out more, I liked them more and more! They’re fun switches to me, but there’s no shame in not liking a highly-hyped switch.

Only complaint I have with Bsun housing is that its top tends to break easily. After opening the switch a few times, side latch areas or top housing’s legs may break. This problem isn’t as bad with Gsus but does happen.

Bottom housing OTOH is much more resilient, perhaps because nylon is more elastic than polycarbonate. And I like the lower-pitch sound nylon makes over higher-pitched polycarbonate sound. I hope future Holy Panda variants go all nylon cuz I hate to see broken switches.

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The YOK housing’s legs were strange for me. I accidentally forced a top down and the legs got bent… and then I just pulled it up, unbent them, and there was no issues whatsoever. Not even any visible wear. Switches are weird.

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Ouch. Yeah, I had a few bent legs with my Holy Gsus, usually while trying open switch top and only one side releases, leaving the leg bent.

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Got it!! I’m very excited for the Holy Pandas to arrive in April(?)! I just tried the original once in a meetup last year in New Jersey. They were built in a Canoe, they were super nice. How’s the Holy GSUS by the way?Seeing you guys talk about crazy mix of switches makes wanna try them all, too bad I don’t have boards for that.

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Gsus is exactly same as Holy Panda. Same with YOK. The switch and stem combo is, however, much more sensitive to type, amount, and method of lubing so opinions tend to vary a lot more than usual.

I disliked TriboSys 3203 at first then, after two board using 3204, made one and egad it was wonderful in different ways. I then went back and added one more coat to a 3204 board and oh boy that felt good. I’ve been lubing like a madman since, trying this and that.

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Gotcha! will wait for my Holy Pandas then, and hope that the new ones are exactly the same as the original.
The only lube that I used so far is the 3204. But sometimes I have the feeling that I underlubed…

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