Work as in doesn’t sound like shit. Functionally it will be fine without any modifications.
1 Like
Haha. Ok. Makes sense.
1 Like
Huh, TIL thanks @norbauer! Now seeing this makes me wonder if the dome completely collapsing like that on Novatouchs has any adverse effects to the domes? Also makes me wonder if there is any quirks like that with Leopold Topre boards & using aftermarket MX sliders in any Topre boards. I’d imagine not with Leopold boards as they use pretty much everything the same as authentic Topre other than the keycap profile. However I bet this is an issues with aftermarket & NIZ sliders. I’m gonna go out on a limb & say the domes most likely can handle being completely collapsed as Novatouchs have been around for a good while & I’m sure we’d have people with issues if they couldn’t hold up to that. Although definitely good info as now we can start messing around trying to get the proper Topre feel out of Novatouchs, RGB Realforces, & conversions to accept MX caps!
1 Like
I’ve wondered about that too. I kind of enjoy the feel of sliders with clipped legs (using dome as bottom out), but one wonders if there is any long-term downside to using the dome for bottom-out as the original Topre patent suggests. (Surely they added those wacky legs for a reason, since there are other ways to achieve a rotation lock.)
3 Likes
Possibly to make spring bind less likely?
1 Like
You mean suction against the PCB keeping the dome from popping back up? I feel like the air channels plus the coil do that perfectly adequately. (In my own dome CAD models, I amuse myself in an oddly puerile way by terming these the “anti-fart channels.”) Without the coil, the suction can definitely occur but not with it—at least not in a way that I can force, even when trying.
1 Like
No, I’m thinking more along the lines of coil bind where there’s contact instead of nesting. I suspect tolerances are pretty tight, but if the alignment of the spring was off relative to the direction of the downward motion of the slider I think the potential would be there.
I frankly hadn’t even considered the suction aspect, but now that does explain those channels.
Guess its time to put some dcs caps on the ol norbatouch.
1 Like
and dcx as well, be curious if it has any sound/interference on NT sliders
1 Like
Thanks for the informative post Norbauer. To expand on this, I have a question.
We now know the bottom out on Topre sliders is caused by the slider legs touching the rubber and not by the key top or slider making contact with the mounting plate. Does this mean the plastic mounting plate on a HHKB does not give a softer bottoming out feel as compared to a Realforce unless the typist bottoms out really hard?
2 Likes
I think the soft bottom out on the HHKB comes from overall plate flex and material acoustic properties, not from contact at the keycap per se. (At least with Topre keycaps there should be no such contact.)
4 Likes
I’m about to build my HG GoFC Edition this weekend and have a set of Novatouch sliders, but when doing some initial testing I noticed GMK keycaps bottened out on the keycap ribs which lead me todo some research and found this thread confirming it 
I have a Realforce RGB in a Norbaforce GoFC Edition here too with GMK keycaps and that does not bottom out like that so something must be different.
1 Like
I just built up a GOCF Heavy Grail with a PC plate, using Des MX sliders, and ran into the same issue with a couple GMK/Cherry Profile keycap sets I’d tried, where the inner support ribs would impact the top of the integrated slider housing when fully depressed. I swapped to MT3 keycaps and the problem went away, so I decided to call it good enough.
Thanks for this! Topre’s soft landing is my favorite thing about them - I think it helps my arthritis.
I got into the game too late for Novatouch, but my two Realforce RGB R2s (in Norbaforce Astrophysical and Aperture ) don’t seem to have as a soft a landing as my 87Us or FC980C. Was hoping it would be as simple as swapping keycaps, but I guess the mystery continues. Mine are factory, not lubed, I’ve wondered if the rattles on the R2 fool my fingers into thinking the landing is harsher than it is.
In any case, I’ve ended up sticking with my FC980C (in Veracity) for my daily driving and relegated the R2s to gaming.
@norbauer I’d be happy to lend you a R2 if you wanna do some science on it, happy to bring it to you if you’re reasonably close to me in LA.
Just finished building the HG, used a Novatouch slider on Esc just to test and for me the GMK ribs turned out not to be real problem, at least not on the Esc position. If I push unnaturally hard then yes, the ribs just touches the ring on the housing, but normal typing it bottoms out first.
Not sure if it’s the plate or if the Novatouch slider is smoother than my HHKB 3 sliders but there is a notable difference.
It’s important to test all rows. R1 (in GMK terms) is set much higher than R3, for example, and thus its ribs don’t clack into a Topre housing. It’s been a long time since I used an NT but, iirc, the problem is mainly on R3 (the home row).
Fwiw, when I last had an NT (4 or 5 years ago), Novelkeys_ used to sell washers that you could put on top of the NT sliders so that the caps rode a little higher and thus wouldn’t interfere w/ the Topre housing – I believe they had uses for regular MX switches as well. I recall only using these on R3 on my NT but possibly used them for R2/R4 as well.
2 Likes
I can confirm the use of the washers. I used them on my novatouched hhkb
1 Like
What washers are you referring to?
These:
I don’t think that OLKB actually stocks them anymore, just a zombie page. NK_ had them for a short time as well but they’ve undergone many website changes since and don’t even have the stock page up.
I’d wager they are just a regular washer that you could find for industrial uses but unfortunately I no-longer have one on hand to do some caliper measurements for you.
@AdrianMan do you, by any chance have any lying around you could measure?
1 Like
I have but can’t find my calipers … will search some more.