Modern electrocapacitive options

Learning and discussion
1

Hi friends,

I recently purchased a KBDFans Agar board with AEBoards Naevy tactile electrocapacitive switches. I am not a big fan of the 60% size or HHKB layout, but suffice it to say that my interest in EC/Topre boards has been fully piqued.

I am fairly deep into the keyboard hobby with many custom MX boards, so the thought of a stock Realforce doesn’t particularly appeal. Nor have I quite fully taken the plunge to the point where I’m ready to invest in a Norbauer case/board. Thus, I am searching for accessible EC kits that lie somewhere in between.

I am aware of the AEBoards Constellation and Satellite, which on paper fit the bill perfectly. Unfortunately, neither of those can be shipped to the USA at present, according to Keyboard Treehouse. I am also aware of the Cipulot EC PCBs available on CannonKeys.

Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to get into this? Especially about where I might find or piece together a good EC custom board in perhaps the $250-500 range? Thank you!

1 Like
2

I believe DESKeys still makes the Neverest series keyboards. They’re at the top end of your price range, and after shipping and tariffs will likely exceed that.

2 Likes
3

Edit - please disregard - I just reread that you already considered these

Cannon Keys usually stocks Cipulot EC PCBs. I have not used any, but I believe they can be added to some popular MX boards to convert them to EC. You would probably have to also get a different plate.

2 Likes
4

I know you indicated you had ruled out a stock RF but I think many Topre “purists” (again, ymmv) would probably point you toward a tuned RF build if you were looking for a peak EC experience on something like a TKL. I’m not one of those purists myself (my main board is an MX swapped HHKB) but if you dip into the discords where those folks tend to congregate they’ll say that you can’t beat well-lubed, stock Topre sliders.

4 Likes
5

A stock realforce is such a wonderful board. Please try one at some point for a weekend. I think around 2014/2015/2016 it was a bit of a meme in the community that the people deepest into the hobby “retired” from it with just a bog-standard realforce 89u. Those boards are magic.

3 Likes
6

So I felt this way myself, but after having just put together a DIY EC TKL board, I’d suggest reconsidering, especially with your price range.

A full set of Deskeys parts for a custom TKL build is $282, and that’s just for the domes, housings, sliders and stabs. You’ll still need a plate (mine was around $70; unless it’s a kit, you need a custom one), a PCB from CK (currently out of stock, but another $65 + $8 for the daughter board). So you’re at $425 and you don’t even have a case yet. And I didn’t include shipping, taxes, or tariff nonsense. There are cheaper parts options, but I wouldn’t recommend them due to fitment issues.

Meanwhile, a full price RF TKL is just under $300 at MK dot com.

If you want something more custom, kits are definitely the way I’d go if I had to do it again, but are still pricey. E.g, if an 1800 layout is your jam, the CK980 GB running right now might work. It’s a bit outside your price range – $385 base EC option plus $155 for the Dynacap kit runs $540 before taxes/shipping.

2 Likes
7

If you are into 40s, the Minimi40 is supposed to be available sometime this year. It has an EC plate and PCB option.

Minimi40 – CannonKeys

2 Likes
8

Thank you all for these great replies. @schizobovine @mwb and @ClappingCactus you make a very compelling case for either just getting a RealForce board or significantly upping my budget. Perhaps a good plan would be to try a RealForce for a while and see if I am sufficiently compelled to invest in an aftermarket case or kit.

2 Likes
9

I think that’s worth a try. I’m a few years out of date on my EC upgrades but it’s worth trying “stock” and seeing what you like and then considering some or all of these. There is frustration and fun in installing all of these upgrades. You learn about how an EC board works intimately but the aforementioned frustration can come from keeping everything organized when you’ve disassembled the board:

  1. Aftermarket domes: this one is sorta the classic. When I first started with this the main 3rd party upgrades were BKE Redux which added a ton of tactility and offered different weights. As you mentioned Deskeys has options now as well as a few others (hopefully Neko or Beezin’ will jump in here and offer more specificity). This is where there is truly a variety of options that will change the feel of an EC board. It’s fun to test but taking apart the board multiple times can be tedious.
  2. Silencing rings: this is another classic. Topre offered their own in S models but 3rd parties added rings with different thicknesses. This will be a matter of taste for sure. Concern about silenced sliders sitting lower and deforming the domes became a thing a few years ago, I don’t where things stand on it now but Deskeys provides “dome gaskets” that sit between the PCB and the housing to reduce this. These gaskets also restore the complete travel of the slider which can be noticeable for thicker silencing rings.
  3. Lubing sliders / housing. This is something I’ve either never been good enough at or never been sensitive enough to feel but it’s really the classic, meat-and-potatoes mod for Topre and finding a Youtube video on it will be infinitely more helpful than anything I can provide
  4. Housing Gaskets: this is where we’re really getting into optimizations where ymmv. These are thin pieces of plastic that fit along the housing itself and prevent the housing from moving around (even slightly) in the plate cutout. Can help with noise and just a general feeling of a well assembled board.
  5. Aftermarket sliders (I’ve interchangeably used “aftermarket” and “3rd party” for no good reason but I just mean non-oem). These are, I think, without exception MX sliders though people will sometimes sell their OEM sliders when they swap them out. As I mentioned before, Topre purists typically look down on this but, for non-stock EC you’re probably gonna end up with these so the kits typically rely on them. There was a time when people really coveted the OEM purple Realforce silenced sliders since they were a little longer and offered more travel but I’m not sure if that’s still en vogue.

I’m sure I missed a bunch since I’m so out of date but I’d recommend trying these one at a time and seeing how things feel. I honestly think that finding out that these types of options exist can often make you start to feel the need for them rather than that need coming along naturally so I kinda apologize. When starting Topre modding I’d recommend the following:

  1. Set aside time for modding. It can be tedious but if you’re not rushed it’s not so bad. You will inevitably face some frustrating moments but typically you cannot do anything that’s irreversible (like burn a pad or something in an MX build).
  2. Have containers ready to store screws (need two different containers), springs (do your best not to have them get mixed together as it’s fairly easy to think you lost one but they’re just mixed together), housings, and keycaps.
  3. Create a harness for the plate to sit in (facing downward) when you re-assemble so that the sliders can hang down with gravity. This makes it much easier to keep the domes and springs in place as well as place the PCB on the assembly for screw-up.
  4. Don’t overtighten screws! This can cause multiple issues including sliders not returning and potentially
2 Likes
10

Don’t tempt me with a good time :grinning_face: All this complexity you describe actually sounds like a very chill and satisfying way to spend a few rainy Saturday afternoons. I sometimes wonder if I’m coming to the end of the road of what I find interesting or novel on the MX side, but clearly, once I’m ready to take the plunge, I have an entirely separate Topre universe to explore.

2 Likes
11

Regarding Deskeys domes, they just debuted their T1 tactile domes, which I’ve found are rather satisfying for their tactility, compared their other options (and better than the KLC ones in every way because they come in 4’s).

Regarding dome gaskets, while deskeys’ site may talk about them, I didn’t really wind up needing them for just silencing rings (even 1mm ones). This might be the housing having a little extra room. The only time they became necessary was when I had both silencing rings and slider gaskets – silicone sticker bumpons that went on the bottom of the sliders. They wound up doing very little but make trouble in my build, causing there to be enough room for some silders to get stuck at the bottom. They might be more important if you were using open-top domes, maybe?

TLDR, you probably don’t need dome gaskets or anything for silencing rings, at least for the two types of aftermarket/non-OEM housings I tried (deskeys and KLC).

I actually had pretty good success using RO-59 dry film on the housings and silders. Completely unlubed, they would squeak and scratch sometimes. Nice thing about the dry film is that once it’s dry, you don’t have to worry much about it going places you don’t want it. Originally, I used 205g0 and I’m still cleaning the entirely too much I used off the first iteration of my build lol. Thinner lubricants should be better, at least for housings and slider lubrication. For stabs, you want thick grease. But avoid dielectric/silicone grease, as it can damage domes!

For the housing gaskets, they’re probably best for boards where the housings are a little loose with the plate. In my case, where the plate was exceptionally tightly cut, they actually caused seizing issues sometimes.

One thing not mentioned – landing pads for sliders. I’m still figuring these out, but they do seem to help soften some of the noise. They’re not as bad as typical MX sliders hitting plastic on FR4 as the dome’s in the way, but still could use some dampening.

I haven’t really noticed much of a difference between the sliders I’ve tried yet. Maybe I’m just a philistine with this Topre stuff. Definitely no purist here. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Second all the recommendations. As a potential tip, I wound up using the top-mount for my keyboard as my jig – got some M2 stand-offs screwed into the top half of the case, and then mounted the plate to that.

1 Like
12

its been a while afaik since i’ve seen this board ocme out so OP will have to buy aftermarket
(read: i dont think des is actively shipping these in 2025)

1 Like
13

welcome soon cup rubber enthusiast

topre is for sure separate from ec
”accessible” ec kits are not quite here yet but soon - there are makers like Clever and Omnitype with Dynacaps, Cipulot’s pcbs of course, and since youre US-based you should be able to access those fairly soon (economy pending).

topre kinda best enjoyed as its full system with its full parts - so like you mentioned - hhkb or realforce are still currently selling - and there are a few classic housings like Norbauer to make these more premium and they can also be modded to accept mx keycaps

but as kind of a strong stock enjoyer or purist as mentioned above– youre kind of going to miss the entire lore of why EC is now trending IF you also haven’t at least tried the original electrocapacitive boards by Topre. which is what a lot of people are trying to chase the feel and magic of but i think the slider, the keycaps, and even (big complaint amongst mx mains) the slightly janky case of older stock topre makes an entire compelling (at least for me) package.

like mentioned above used Realforces and HHKBs average about 150-200 used or just under 300 new, and possibly mx-modding them may be up to another 200usd on top give or take when Dynacap parts are released. @schizobovine ‘s price breakdown is p accurate for 2025. I also want to remind everyone Realforce’s current Topre boards all have a little bit of customization options (albeit never going to be as crazy as mx) with some color keycap sets that are available on mk dot com.

3 Likes
14

It did seem like it had been a while since I’d seen anyone talk about these.

That said, it looks like you can still order one from the site?

2 Likes
15

Just yesterday I went off about how dope these boards are to Clever. Des was ahead of his time with this release, the first all-in-but-the-keycaps custom EC kit. It’s a solid board, and the accompanying numpad with left or right passthrough connection that you could get for it really took it over the top.

image
image1920×1440 303 KB

6 Likes