Um, your ‘mix’ may differ from their ‘mix’. I frankly wouldn’t mind buying 3204.5g0.
I swapped the PC plate for the Fr4 plate in the Ginkgo65 today and learned that I did not like the Fr4 plate 
now to swap it back tomorrow…
I also started putting on the DSA keycaps and while I like the look of them, I don’t like the sound or feel of them… 
this I’m a little disappointed by as I had high hopes. But I like XDA and XVX much better. No more keycap profile experiments…! Well, maybe G20, but not any time soon! 
Anyone in the market for Fr4 plate or DSA milkshake? 
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Learnt about this cool project!
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Don’t be me and brick your DZ60 PCB by following KBDfans “new” USB device flash manual while running MacOS Ventura. Use the Terminal to copy the new firmware to the newly mounted folder in your /Volumes directory after putting the board in boot mode. For $#@! sake, rename the new firmware to FLASH.BIN after deleting the one already there and be sure to delete both the EEPROM.BIN file and the .fseventsd folder Apple sneaks in there. You’ve been warned. Hope this helps.
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Today I learned that work is easier when loving the sound of your keyboard 
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Today I learned there are more iterations of the tooling used for Marshmallows than I previously thought - at least three.
Thoughts on distinctions
JWK doesn’t distinguish between “V1”, “V2”, etc. as different revisions - but there are clearly different permutations, at least - so I’ll just call them A, B, and C, without any specific implication to chronology or revision from those designations.
I usually leave this type of detail to @ThereminGoat as it’s part of his standard to cover - and he has indeed covered this switch, though it is one of the older reviews that predates the photography setup upgrade, and probably at least one of these switch versions. Master Goat has probably taken a closer look at more switches than almost any person alive - if you happen to check out this post, I’d love to know if this relates to any broader pattern you’ve seen with JWK-made switches over the years.
Note these are not going to be color-exact photos and are mostly intended to show tooling mark details.
I bought some to top-off a jar, which itself was a mixture of tooling iterations (had assumed two, after counting it could have been all three) - I wanted to not have a mix in the jar if possible.
For what it’s worth I don’t think there’s much practical difference here aside from maybe how loud the springs are before tuning, just some neat trivia:
A
- Small circles in all 4 corners
- No marks on clip tabs
- Badges good but not totally consistent; some "O"s don’t look filled-in from some angles due to varied surface shine, first “T” is a little flattened on the left
- Slightly more sparkly than others
- Lowest pitch spring ping
B
I’d at first taken these to be identical with A, but there are a few distinctions.
- Small circles in all 4 corners
- Small circles also on the clip tabs
- Condition / detail of badge appears slightly better than A
- Colors and shininess a bit different; slightly lighter, slightly less glossy badge
- “O” in badge is most consistent of three but still doesn’t appear filled-in depending on the light
- Somewhat higher pitched ping
C
- Larger circles in all 4 corners
- No circles on clip tabs, surface is more glossy except at edges - corners generally more round on these tabs than with the other two
- Badge in good condition, good detail
- “O” in badge does not appear filled-in from all angles, has a thin rim around outside, like A but a bit more-so
- Bottom tooling details less shiny than other two
- Lightest, warmest color of the three
- Similar pitch ping as B, but noticeably louder
- Do feel a but more smooth than the other two
- Most visually distinct as corner circles are clearly a different size, but came from the middle order chronologically, and closer to the first; around two years ago
Thoughts on breakdown
After separating and counting all of these, which I did get from three sources, I think it breaks-down like this:
-
I had an even 30 of C with the bigger circles and shiny tabs; I believe all of these came from the preorder run by 3DKeebs, I’m thinking around two years back
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I had a few more of A (33) with the small circles and no tab marks; I believe all of these came from the initial run, in a bag gifted to me by another KeebTalk user (thanks again if you’re still around here)
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I had 65 of B with the small circles in the corners and on the clip tabs. My order from HeebieKeebies was for 60 and I know it’s pretty normal to find an extra or two - so it’s totally possible all of these came from that order. 5 is a generous number of extras so a few may have come from elsewhere, but in-context it still seems most likely the three iterations came from the three very spaced-out acquisitions
It looks like chronological manufacturing order may have been A, C, B even though C has the most visually-distinguishable features, as B came from an order at least a year newer than the next.
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Slightly, off topic…what I would like to learn today is what the effect is of the difference between long-pole and “normal”-size stems?
Apparently the Black Sesame switches I like so much are long-pole switches, and that was not an aspect I had been paying attention to, so now I am curious 
So, why would one like/not like long-pole over the alternative and vice versa. Could anyone point me towards where I can find out about this? My search on the forum didn’t quite find me what I was looking for…
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Two main long-pole differences:
- Louder clack (often slightly higher pitch but not always)
- Shorter key travel (some offer full 4mm but most don’t)
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Do you feel a different between the versions? I remember 2 JWK (Durock to be specific) orders and they were different from each other.
First set was samples of T1s and some Durock Ls, they were very nice and smooth, see through but somewhat cloudy housing.
With the second order I got some more T1s, the new ones had an almost translucent housing, and while smooth they had plastic-y resistance, as if they were so smooth they had a lot of contact area.
So definitely a different revision but no “official release”, I much prefer the first order btw.
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In short, long pole switches makes for a different sound profile, and it shortens the key travel, most people seek it for the sound.
When the pole hits the housing it creates a different sound profile, imaging a tip of a pen (long pole) hitting the table vs smacking your phone flat side on the table (regular stem), just a lot smaller and more condensed, the difference isn’t night and day, but it is noticeable if you listen.
The short key travel also makes tactile switches feel like the bump is ‘D’ shaped as opposed to ‘P’ shape (like the T1 switch), meaning minimal travel after the bump - not that critical to feel IMO, but still a main aspect.
Not every long pole is the same though:
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“Standard” form factor, e.g. Holy Panda, U4T, Tecsee Carrots, long pole, hits the bottom housing, causing short key travel, which also makes the stem to protrude outside, was caused by mixing different “incompatible” switch parts.
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Switches with a long p[ole but without shortened key travel and protruding stem, basically the pole is just long enough to hit the bottom housing before the stem rails, e.g. NK Creams, Durock Piano, Akko CS line.
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Another difference is the pole shape or thickness, for example Tecsee made a change recently, they changed the pole shape from a tip with a chamfer to a flat end, which impacted the sound, made it lower and a bit less sharp.
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To add to the responses already given: sometimes long pole switches exhibit more wobble than their standard counterparts. This is more traditionally true, but I’m not sure if it’s always the case on newer switches as I quite hate reduced travel and haven’t tried the new offerings.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation, really helpful (also @fatalruin and all!)
I don’t think my fingers are quite sensitive enough to notice the shorter travel, but I might try a direct comparison with a normal pole length.
I’ll have to go back to Theremingoat’s page to look at pictures of the stem poles of the switches you mention, it’ll be interesting to see.
So, today I started learning about long pole switches! 
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Greatly appreciate the detail here mate! As you astutely pointed out, the Marshmallows were actually my first review and its got to be nearly 3 years old here in a handful of days.
While I was aware of there being differences between the US and Chinese releases regarding spring weight, I was not aware of these tiny based mold details. Thanks for the enlightening content and the ping!
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I learned that filling up keyboards to eliminate echo will not necessarily make them sound cleaner.
Sounds silly I know, but I was under the impression that eliminating echo will lead to cleaner sound, so I filled my top-mount-modded NK65EE with silicone (plate+case).
Well, as it turns out, it wasn’t really the case, first of all it makes the sound feel like it vibrates upwards rather than through the case, and it really highlights every flaw in the sound profile.
I was really enjoying the sound profile before adding any dampening materials, and suddenly I’m hearing every spring crunch, or small kink, the spacebar has some “swish” sound that wasn’t noticeable before.
As well as muting the switches while leaving the spacebar loud.
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I have a stock batch of 70 from this exact preorder and for sure they’re C. Those large circles in all 4 corners is totally easy to spot now that you mention it. Nice work.
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Totally. I really appreciate how blah echo can morph into really great pitch and tone.
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I wouldn’t say it sounds silly. It’s not like most people have reason to ponder acoustics on a regular basis - but keebs are a great avenue to play and learn with it.
Silicone fills-up the space and stops sound from bouncing-around inside the case - but as you’ve discovered, it acts as its own sound-reflective surface. No more echo or reverb, but all the little crisp details bounce right up at you - for better or worse.
There are all kinds of things one can fill a keyboard case with (just ask the hippo guy), and there is some variation in how they affect sound.
Perhaps at the other end of things from silicone might be something like pillow / plush filling. It’s flexible in that you can use a little for a subtle effect, or fill it more densely for greater sound-deadening. There’s also foam specifically sold as sound-deadening and it’s great - but I don’t think you have to spend that much to get results.
Ha - this makes me want to see how quiet I can get the BBOX60. It’s basically a plastic loudening chamber attached to the rest of a keyboard.
A topical comparison; this is a recording of TTC Frozen Silent switches in a Portico, which has most of its interior space filled with silicone that has a pattern on the surface:
Here are those same switches in the BBOX60, which is filled with air:
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Definitely had the same experience before. A little space for reverberation keeps the pitch low and can hide those nasty higher pitched sounds like you mentioned. Makes me think of Chyrosran/Thomas’ amber alps board mounted in that deep, hollow, wooden case.
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Chyrosran22 knows his stuff, he might be old fashioned but he does have a point about the newer keyboard and their over-the-top foams and heavy cases.
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I was able to significantly lighten or near erase a few brass plate scratches I picked up while clumsily reseating switches using a few drops of lemon juice on a scotch-brite scrubbing pad. You want to rub a snippet of the pad from side to side and never circular, keeping your back and forth motion tight and centered over the scratch you’re working on. Gradually expand your scrubbing motion to include not only the scratch but a couple of centimeters on either side. Keep this up for about 10 minutes then wipe the area with a dry cloth and repeat. After about 30 minutes, I could only make out the faintest apparition of a scratch even in direct sunlight. I’m thinking time and tarnish will take care of the rest.
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