I change to hot swap only on Keychron.
And on other keyboards (QK65 and tiger80) always only when completely disassembled.
Only this is not because the switches, but because the stabilizers.
If you often change keycaps, and I often change keycaps on the same keyboard. That stabilizer starts to fight. A little bit but the wire bends or something. Therefore, in order to pull it out as carefully as possible, I disassemble))
On the board itself, I’ve only noticed two things so far.
First, it is much more flex. And the corner places along the edges are more stable than those of the native. At the default Tiger80 board, the edges bend very strongly, it is problematic to insert or remove switches. It’s possible, but problematic.
The second is some layouts. Like mine with a 7th space. Makes some places with north diode switch location. And I got an interference effect here.
It is especially sad that this effect on keycap enter.((((((((((
The Aerospace Heavy Grail is here! Sadly, the stabilized keys are making me scratch my head. Depending on the keycaps used and position, they can fail to return. That’s even true of the space bar if I add the stock spring under the cap. But with others, they work just fine. So to me, that rules out:
Slider tolerance issues
Stab interference on the spacebar.
MX stabilizer holes being too small/off center
The domes are BKE Ultralights, which worked wonderfully in a Hybrid with CRP keycaps. However, they’re one of the bad ones here along with DCX. Some ePBT sets work fine, though. Even with the CRP set, the left shift will return but the space bar and enter do not.
The only other time I’ve had this happen was on an MX board and the culprit was a warped space bar. But I know that’s not the issue here since it’s multiple keys and the CRP set worked just fine in the previous setup in the Hybrid. The only variable between those two was going from Novatouch to Des sliders.
Given that the sliders are the only variable, that seems to be the culprit but I can’t make sense as to why. I’ll probably end up having to take it back apart but I’m baffled at the moment.
Reading the old Geekhack and Deskthority threads about the OTD series had some pretty interesting insights into old design. The 356N in particular was a top mounted design that used an o-ring in between the plate and PCB, much like how o-rings are currently used in gummy o-ring mounting. However it seems to be only used for sound purposes since the 356N didn’t have any posts in the bottom case and nowadays no one seems to use the o-ring in conjuction with top mount, its used as an o-ring exclusive mount. Since my FBTKL has the Jane V2 CE mounting for top/o-ring mount, I figured I’d give it a shot and see if I could notice any difference with my top mounted POM plate.
I grabbed the softest o-ring I had which was a 50A durometer one and put it into the assembly like normal:
Build was POM plate, Durock Medium Tactiles (PC top/Nylon bottom) lubed with 3204 and Deskeys films, TX Stabs and no plate foam or case foam. Keycaps were PBTFans Deep Sea Predator.
I think I typed slightly harder on the one with the o-ring because it seems slightly louder but in all honestly I don’t notice that much of a difference in sound. If I had to pick I think it sounds slightly cleaner but that could just as well be placebo. I’ll be leaving it in because I don’t really see a negative to this but maybe this is one of the reasons why mounting the o-ring with a top-mount board fell out of favor.
I finally built a board in my blue TEX case. I got it about 8 years ago. I had a zeal60 rev2 PCB for it, but I just never felt like putting in the time.
Spent so many years trying to find the right plate, switch, keycap combo that I just gave up.
Well, today I milmaxed the zeal60 PCB!
These old TEX cases have ridges that run across the PCB. So not only is it tray mount, but even firmer than most tray mounts. Also rules out mounting a hotswap PCB in it due to case/socket collision. Hence the milmax board.
The good thing is that the supports give the board very even acoustics.
I found a decent solution for dampening with foam strips and vinyl tape.
Using a 4mm brass plate gives it heft.
Now I just need to get clear caps to show off those LED diffusers. It looks so hot with the LEDs on
A blast from the past on my bench today. Very happy I finally put it to use.
Even is the paraffin oil evaporates, it will still leave behind the PTFE powder and is a possibility another option to something like RO-59’s cure time. This is a great option for combating stick-slip on switches that you may have or Frankenswitches that employ the same materials.
Initially application was smooth with a little scratch, until the PTFE found a home, but then smoothed right out. I will allow it to evaporate for about a week and revisit it, but I am thinking the results will be just as nice if not better.
There are multiple options for both ingredients, but I went with these:
I got tired of brushing RO-59 on stems so poured out a vial into a small pan to let the stems just soak in the pan and stir casually a few times a day to re-coat. RO-59’s key feature is that its water-based so I’m going to drip some water into the pan as needed and keep re-coating as long as my patience/laziness lasts.
If the result is anything worthwhile, I’m going to try the PTFE powder solution above because RO-59 looks like milk, making me wonder if I got scammed.
UPDATE: The idea of dripping water didn’t pan out. No big deal. RO-59 is on sale now $6.50 (but expiration date for this batch is November) so I was able to order enough to fill my need. I’m looking forward to using RO-59 on EC kit for Class60.
Nope, not scammed. That’s what my RO-59 looks like as well.
It works, it’s just a pain doing switches in batches and losing one of my lubing stations for hours on end while the housings and stems dry.
The water-based solution is a bit of a PITA to get evenly spread on plastic parts, so thats kind of what led me to looking at something like paraffin oil. It plays nice with plastics and is a pretty decent lubricant as well.
I’ve been using ChatGPT to formulate some prompts an app so I asked it some questions about this.
When asked “Which oil is best for diluting PTFE powder?”, ChatGPT wrote:
Mineral oil: This is a commonly used oil for diluting PTFE powder as it has good chemical stability and low volatility. It is also odorless and colorless, making it suitable for use in a wide range of applications.
Silicone oil: Silicone oil is another option that can be used for diluting PTFE powder. It has good lubricating properties, high thermal stability, and good chemical resistance. However, it can be more expensive than mineral oil.
Polyalphaolefin (PAO) oil: PAO oil is a synthetic oil that has excellent thermal stability, low volatility, and good lubricating properties. It is also less likely to react with other chemicals, making it a good choice for use in industrial applications.
Fluorinated oil: Fluorinated oils are specially designed for use with PTFE and other fluoropolymers. They have excellent chemical resistance and can withstand high temperatures. However, they can be expensive and may not be suitable for all applications.
Ultimately, the choice of oil will depend on the specific properties required for the final product. It is important to consult with a supplier or manufacturer to determine the best oil for your particular application.
When asked “Best diluent for PTFE powder?”:
Isoparaffin oil: Isoparaffin oils are highly refined petroleum-based solvents that are often used as a diluent for PTFE powder. Isoparaffin oil has a low viscosity, low surface tension, and is compatible with a wide range of materials.
Aliphatic hydrocarbons: Aliphatic hydrocarbons, such as n-hexane or n-heptane, can also be used as diluents for PTFE powder. These solvents have low surface tension and high volatility, which can help to reduce clumping and improve flowability.
Fluorinated liquids: Fluorinated liquids, such as perfluorocarbons or perfluoropolyethers, are highly compatible with PTFE and can be used as diluents for PTFE powder. These solvents have low surface tension, high thermal stability, and are non-reactive with PTFE.
Water: In some applications, water can be used as a diluent for PTFE powder. Water can help to reduce clumping and improve flowability, but it is not compatible with all types of PTFE.
When asked “PTFE powder diluent that leaves no residue”:
Isoparaffin oil: Isoparaffin oil is a highly refined petroleum-based solvent that is often used as a diluent for PTFE powder. Isoparaffin oil is known for leaving little to no residue after processing, making it a popular choice for many applications.
Fluorinated liquids: Fluorinated liquids, such as perfluorocarbons or perfluoropolyethers, are highly compatible with PTFE and can be used as diluents for PTFE powder. These solvents are known for leaving little to no residue after processing.
Alcohols: Alcohols, such as isopropanol or ethanol, can also be used as diluents for PTFE powder. These solvents are known for leaving little to no residue after processing.
Water: In some applications, water can be used as a diluent for PTFE powder. Water is known for leaving little to no residue after processing, but it is not compatible with all types of PTFE.
Answers haven’t been verified but isoparaffin, a derivative of paraffin which is a mineral oil, looks interesting although they’re not readily available like regular paraffin oil.
Going to tub lube and stem swap Kailh red and Gateron silent yellow. I dislike both of these switches. But the red stem in the Gateron housing is really nice. More stable and clack is nice from the longer stem. Not sure about the silent yellow in the Kailh housing. Initial impression is a bit of wobble but otherwise superb. I’ll report back if they’re worth it.
ha. well I got the stems lubed so I assembled a few to test out again. Not as good as I had hoped.
The silent yellow stem in the Kailh housing doesn’t work. It makes a collision if pressed too hard or at the wrong angle. So that won’t do.
The Kailh red stem in the nylon Gateron housing sounds soooo good. It’s pretty frigging wobbly, though. I don’t know why the one I tested previously wasn’t. They sound so good that I’m going to proceed.
This is such an underrated issue and something I wish manufactures would nail down. Not to mention how a high profile keycap absolutely exacerbates any presence of key binding that might not be there when using a more cylindrical profile.
Okay. Finished. Spent half the day modding switches and half the day putting this together. Quite happy with it.
The gateron nylon housings with Kailh red stems are nice. I think the stem length of the reds is a bit inconsistent, but the result is still a lot better than stock Kailh housings. And I hated the gateron silent yellows, so it’s a win-win.
Class80 TLK with my first ever aftermarket keycap set. Can’t beat the texture of old ePBT.
Solenoid is fun. The beeper is super annoying. Great party trick though. The finish is lovely. Perfect beige. Silky smooth feels nice to the touch.
The kit came with a ton of different foams and options to top or gasket mount. I went with a top mounted polycarbonate plate with the thinner plate foam. Unused is the thicker plate foam (it was like 7mm before compression, poron switch foam sheet, and thick foam for under the PCB with hotswap socket cutouts)
I was actually concerned with trying to use the switch foam sheet b/c it kept attracting static electricity. Seems like a bad idea to me
I had a hard time closing the case with the hotswap cutout foam, so I left it out. This case definitely doesn’t need all the foam to sound good.
No @pixelpusher you mind voodoo has not worked, I was a few days into this project… Or has it…
The dimensions are based on this repo which indicates masterkeys and novatouch use the same cutout but the cable is reversed. So maybe the same design would work for both but the cable pinnout would just need to be changed.
Stem inside the body of the stabilizer does not touch the walls. There, as you can see in the photo, there are guides that fix the movements of its course.
Plus, his bracket when latched into the case, it holds very well. In the video, I showed that the stem does not fall as usual.
POM body. But earlier in the photo on the side, I showed that there is a gap where you can see that the stem does not go down to the end. Does not touch the surface of the PSB.
Therefore, the sound comes more from the switch itself.
Sound test video.
